8 replies to this topic

[BPV]

After accidentally joining in a sit n go with wrto, and falling victim to the weak lead, I decided id try it out on a NL game on stars tonight. One hand I limped in with TJs, flop came 10 4 10, and I checked it... Everyone checked behind me. Turn was a king, figuring it gave someone at least pair, i fired out 5 dollars... everyone folded and i took down a 5 or so dollar pot.Second experiment.. Found myself on the button with ace jack of hearts. Flop came A6A, and instead of checking, I bet out 3 dollars. 2 people folded, on raised to 5 dollars, the other raised it up to 16 dollars. I came over the top of both of them, and they both folded, and i took down a pot of a little under 30 dollars.. So my question is this.. Is the weak lead a situational play, or is it pretty standard to make a small bet on a flop like that? I know that it should always be switched up, sometimes check, sometimes fire... but I'm a little unsure as how to best use the weak lead.. or if I used it correctly.. anyone?

[Smasharoo]

It's better on the turn after a decent bet on the flop.Looks like you took a shot, chickened out on taking another real shot and are trying to buy it cheap. Lots of people will raise over that.

[GaelicGrindFRC]

I just did it to the same guy twice ! lolBet the flop hard , then min. on Turn.He came over the top and I over him .His pp 55 vs. my AA. Same thing a few hands later , I held Ax, and flop had one.Bet er hard he called ...you know the rest .... I like this play !

[jayboogie]

GaelicGrindFRC said:

I just did it to the same guy twice ! lolBet the flop hard , then min. on Turn.He came over the top and I over him .His pp 55 vs. my AA.  Same thing a few hands later ,  I held Ax, and flop had one.Bet er hard he called ...you know the rest .... I like this play !

I kind of see this very often now when playing. Personally, I don't really use it much unless it's against an overaggressive player. When I see a weak bet after a strong bet on the flop from a decent player, it's usually a trigger in my head that he's trying to get as much value for his hand and keep me in the pot. So, I will usually call it, or raise the minimum if I have a decent hand. If he plays back at me, then I'll usually fold it. Against good players, they'll usually be able to notice you doing this. If I've seen somebody use this, sometimes I"ll play back at them, pushing my chips all-in. This will really scramble up the players thinking. If he has 2 pair, but the board shows a straight or flush possibility, most of the time, that all-in bet will make the other player fold if he has some sense to lay down hands.

[wrto4556]

The situation described by smash is one of many situations to use the weak lead.During the Tournament of Champions Daniel Negreanu fell victim to it, too. Him and Chip Reese took a flop together. Daniel was holding something like 6 7 and chip had K T . You can already guess the trouble he's going to get into.The flop comes with four spades. I can't remember how the betting went post-flop but the spade came on the river.Daniel checks his flush, and Chip throws out a small bet...Daniel comes over the top pretty large, and Chip bumps it up again. I remember Daniel saying: "I could have just called." lol.Chip got FULL value for his flush. Daniel would have layed down to an all in, knowing his flush was beat.Daniel actually wrote an article about the weak lead, you should read it. Its aptly named "The Weak Lead." It's one of his card player articles.It can be used as a trap, or to "sell" a hand. If you think you're ahead but you don't want to bet too big, the weak lead is good. Start using it more for a while, and once you get the hang of it...You notice some of the places it works best. LIke all tools, it shouldn't be over-used.

[JFarrell20]

The weak lead is not intended to be used necessarily when you are dominant.The weak lead is for use when you are strong, but you fear someone is stronger. You want to disquise this fact by putting a decent (weak) bet into the pot and hoping they just call it to the end. I call it "damage control", because it's like buying insurance. you are trying to lessen your losses.Example:You are heads up and get raised 3XBB. You have Q 10. You are ahead so you call. Flop comes Q A 4 rainbow. Great, you hit a good pair, but b/c you got raised pre-flop you fear your opponent has Aces. So do you check? I'd probably check/call the flop, and get him wondering. Turn brings a 7 (no help). Now I'd fire out a similar bet that you just called, this will probably scare him a little and he'll just call. Again on 5th street you should probably fire out a decent 50% pot bet and pray for JUST a call.That is a weak lead. When you flop trips in a multi way pot and you are first to act, weak leading is wayy too fishy. You should Definitely check here and wait for another person to bring in.

[wrto4556]

Why would you bet what you believe to be the worst hand?If you were on a draw I could understand, because you are getting a cheap price by doing the betting. But QT? Explain.

[JFarrell20]

wrto4556 said:

Why would you bet what you believe to be the worst hand?If you were on a draw I could understand, because you are getting a cheap price by doing the betting. But QT? Explain.

let me explain:You bet with what you think is the worst hand b/c you may be wrong and you don't want to get bluffed out of the pot!Lets say you check with middle pair (queens). Your opponent raised pre-flop (he might have pocket Jacks), or even K-J suited? In other words, you are winning right now with the queens. HOWEVER, the ace on the flop scares you b/c of his pre-flop raise. So say you were scared and you checked... now he bets double the pot. What would you do? I think you'd have to fold (the best hand) here. In other words, you want to lead out and make him question what you have, so he'll just call you down and hope his hand improves (which it likely wont). You do not want him to know the ACE on board scared you!!! That is why you bet with what you think might not be the best hand. It doesn't mean it's not the best hand. I can't tell you how much I''ve saved by doing this (and how much I've won when I actually did have the best hand)."Damage control" is a HUGE part of my game, and it should be a big part of yours as well. Put yourself in the other guys shoes... you raise pre-flop. He calls. He checks the ace on the flop, you bet, he calls. (OK, this guy may be strong, I'd better slow it down with just aces). Now the turn brings no help and he bets out 50% of the pot??? If I'm holding 'just' aces, this is going to scare me a little, I'd definitely just call. Especially if you have A-J or a worse kicker..) Whenever its hard to realize if a play is good, try looking at it from the other perspective.

[jayboogie]

1 thing is if you use the weak lead, make sure there are no draws that you think your opponent would try to hit. I've seen it happen over and over again. Do not give free cards when theres a draw out there. Yeah, sure you might win a smaller pot, but it's better than getting knocked out a tournament giving cheap and free cards. Also, only use it if you have a really good read on your opponent and have a good idea of what he's holding, otherwise you could be trapping yourself.