21 replies to this topic

[TJ_Eckleburg]

Villain in question and I both have around 50 bucks.Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ 50 NL (10 handed) converterCO ($66.5)BMF'er ($46.67)SB ($19.5)BB ($67.25)UTG ($54.6)UTG+1 ($47.5)UTG+2 ($61.4)MP1 ($51.7)MP2 ($57.35)MP3 ($34.65)Preflop: BMF'er is Button with [Td], [Th]. SB posts a blind of $0.25. UTG calls $0.50, 1 fold, UTG calls $2.50, UTG+2 folds.Quite possibly my first mistake: raising preflop. We've been over this at length in another thread, and I generally limp with 99-22. TT has a real chance of flopping over the board, though, and if that happens I want some fold equity too. Plus, position.Flop: ($7.25) [6d], [2h], [4h] (2 players)UTG bets $3, BMF'er folds.I go into the tank here. What would he limp with and immediately call a significant raise with? I think 66, 44, or 22. Plus, right out of Fish 101, he makes a c0cktease bet on the flop and quickly re-raised me. I don't think AhXh does that. I guess best case scenario would be if he had AhXh, where I had to dodge 9 hearts and one or two overs. 77-99 is possible, I guess, and that woulda been cool.Final Pot: $43.25Basically, on the flop he made me decide if I wanted to go all in... and I didn't particularly want to.Should I take a break from NL and take the tampon out, or should i just close my eyes and go for it in this situation?I still don't know what he had. Oh well. In retrospect, I really wish I'd pushed over the top.

[allinbluff35]

the villain bet less than half the pot on the flop and then when you raised the pot he minimim raised. When an opponent is betting/minimum raising like that it's telling me that he wants to get as much value out of this hand as he can. My guess would be he either has a set, KK, or AA. we'll never know but I do like this, NH.

[TJ_Eckleburg]

allinbluff35 said:

the villain bet less than half the pot on the flop and then when you raised the pot he minimim raised. When an opponent is betting/minimum raising like that it's telling me that he wants to get as much value out of this hand as he can. My guess would be he either has a set, KK, or AA. we'll never know but I do like this, NH.

My thinking too.I just can't shake the feeling that I just got pushed off an overpair by some fishy UTG that I wanted to double through. I don't play NL to be a big b!tch, ya know?

[BeanGW]

TJ_Eckleburg said:

Plus, right out of Fish 101, he makes a c0cktease bet on the flop and quickly re-raised me. Should I take a break from NL and take the tampon out, or should i just close my eyes and go for it in this situation?

LOL.... Two classic lines TJ... especially the second one.I like your play here TJ. I'd fold this one too. He's either got a set, or A-Kh... yeah there's a chance he's got 77-99, but I'd say it's fairly slim, and offset by the chance he's got JJ-KK and just called your raise. Also your reverse implied odds here are pretty lousy for making the call, IMHO. If he hits an A, K, or heart you're in pretty deep. I'd get out before being pot committed in a hand that could leave me broke. The final straw here is that UTG has bet as well... who knows what he's gonna do. You are stuck in the middle... not a great place to be.For a NL or PL hand, I'd have to agree with your fold here. I think the limit players may disagree with me here, but I think you made the right fold.

[TJ_Eckleburg]

thanks... i try.I dunno. From all my tournaments... I found it a lot easier to just move in with overpairs, and shrug and pay better hands if it happens.In cash games... it's just like a movie where I've already seen the ending. It's absolutely KILLING me that I don't know what this guy had.Thoughts on the preflop raise? I'm not sure I like it. I think it could have gone either way. If I just limp... a lot of other people see this flop also, so I'd have to throw in a pretty big (compared to the pot) raise, but that would have probably ended up being less money than what it ended up being. If he pushes over that bet, I'd have easily folded, because there's just too much out there.

[BeanGW]

TJ_Eckleburg said:

thanks... i try.I dunno. From all my tournaments... I found it a lot easier to just move in with overpairs, and shrug and pay better hands if it happens.In cash games... it's just like a movie where I've already seen the ending. It's absolutely KILLING me that I don't know what this guy had.Thoughts on the preflop raise? I'm not sure I like it.

PF raise in an unraised pot from the button... absolutely standard.Honestly man... I feel the same way, but lately my reads have been getting better and better. I'll get out of a 3 way pot like this, the UTG will call or reraise, and I would have been up against a higher pair and a set.The beauty of NL/PL is that by playing your hands right, you can absolutely break a player when you've got the best of it. I'm not saying to be a nut peddler or anything... but I really find that I totally make up for those times I bail on a borderline hand in NL/PL with the times I break somebody when I do have the nutz and he is too fishy to fold. At least at the $25 or $50 party tables.This is one hugemongtastic difference between NL/PL and Limit Poker, IMHO. In Limit, you are taught to make the marginal calls (better to lose one bet than lose the pot). In NL, making the lay downs is super important. If you're bluffed out of a pot or two. OK... it happens. But don't fault yourself for making a laydown when there are a lot of hands that have you beat.

[Blink20]

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I go into the tank here. What would he limp with and immediately call a significant raise with? I think 66, 44, or 22. Plus, right out of Fish 101, he makes a c0cktease bet on the flop and quickly re-raised me. I don't think AhXh does that. I guess best case scenario would be if he had AhXh, where I had to dodge 9 hearts and one or two overs. 77-99 is possible, I guess, and that woulda been cool.

I think you are absolutely right in your thinking. Except for saying right out of FIsh 101, but I guess poker players like to generalize the competition. He made the move to lead into the preflop raiser and then come back over the top. If he doesn't have you beat, well, say congratulations on your big balls as your hand goes into the muck. This is a clear fold to not even have to worry about afterwards.

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Basically, on the flop he made me decide if I wanted to go all in... and I didn't particularly want to.

Again, in this case, a pair of tens is not strong enough to get all your money in the middle. You took your shot at the point and he kept coming back at you. The only time you would call is if you had a read on your opponent (ie he's a maniac) or if he was a short stack, always pick fights with short stacks they generally have weaker holdings.

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Should I take a break from NL and take the tampon out, or should i just close my eyes and go for it in this situation?

No to both questions. If you keep making smart laydowns like this, then you should stick with NL and adding to your bankroll. Well, I guess yes to the tampon question....GL at the tables :-)

[Smasharoo]

Fine.It's only TT. If he's making plays like this with A6 or flush draws or whatever, you're going to have all his chips evebtually anyway.,

[TJ_Eckleburg]

Smasharoo said:

Fine.It's only TT.  If he's making plays like this with A6 or flush draws or whatever, you're going to have all his chips evebtually anyway.,

The fact that it was TT (and overcards were live) scared me also.Preciate that. Means a lot to me.Thoughts about the raise preflop?And how's your wife doing by the way? Better?

[Smasharoo]

I think the prelop play is fine, the flop's a litte bit of an overbet and the fold is fine. I might just call the flop bet and see where the turn goes.That doesn't mean it's the best play, I'm just more inclined to see what the turn agression is like after a flat call.

[TJ_Eckleburg]

I overbet to scare out flush draws and to find out in a hurry if he's got something I should be worried about... which I did.I tend to overbet (not a lot, but a little) when I've got strong but vulnerable hands. Mostly I do that to chase out draws and overcards. Is that a good way to play those kinds of hands?

[Smasharoo]

Is that a good way to play those kinds of hands?Sure. Personally, I'm just more inclined to punish draws on the turn.

[bascomeb]

Yeah i like your fold on the flop after you raised a huge amount and he came over the top. This isn't a good spot and at 50NL you def. can get into a better one. But I don't agree with the flop raise. This was a $10 raise and was too big. you committed a lot of chips to this pot now after that raise. I mean since it was a fish and he got excited and reraised, you got off easy. But if it was me and i had 66 and after that huge reraise you pull on me. I'd def. flat call you to prepare myself for a check raise on the turn. You got lucky he got excited enough to push all in with his set or possibly 77 99, but unlikely.

[TJ_Eckleburg]

I don't feel bad committing lots of money to pots with an overpair.

[cdddc75]

bascomeb said:

Yeah i like your fold on the flop after you raised a huge amount and he came over the top. This isn't a good spot and at 50NL you def. can get into a better one. But I don't agree with the flop raise. This was a $10 raise and was too big. you committed a lot of chips to this pot now after that raise.  I mean since it was a fish and he got excited and reraised, you got off easy. But if it was me and i had  66 and after that huge reraise you pull on me. I'd def. flat call you to prepare myself for a check raise on the turn. You got lucky he got excited enough to push all in with his set or possibly 77 99, but unlikely.

Well said. That reraise is begging to get punished by a set on a turn check/raise.

[Smasharoo]

I'd def. flat call you to prepare myself for a check raise on the turn.And pay off 35

[bascomeb]

TJ_Eckleburg said:

I don't feel bad committing lots of money to pots with an overpair.

you should depending on the situation. IMHO, in NL HE, I like to bet out draws on the turn rather then the flop.Someone with a flush draw on the flop will probably not fold. And in 50 nl its infinite. Then what if the flush comes? All of a sudden you have to act tentative and he may be able to take it from you. If it was me I would've called the flop bet, then see how much he bets on the turn, then decided from my read what I should do. Betting out draws on the turn is much better because of the fact they only have one more card to come and when that card hits they'll be out of position

[bascomeb]

Smasharoo said:

I'd def. flat call you to prepare myself for a check raise on the turn.And pay off 35

If you raised to $3 with 35, I think its safe to say I'd have to pay you off

[Smasharoo]

If you raised to $3 with 35, I think its safe to say I'd have to pay you offNow you know why Hansen does.

[PrtyPSux]

GF...I agree with most of what everyone has said...I have a question though, you raised $3 preflop, do you always raise that much? because if you usually rais 1.5 or 2 it'll look weird (depending on the read I have on you) and if you raise 3 every time I think its too much..yea, it might drive more people out than a $1.5 raise does, but your continuation bet is whats going to start getting expensive...on the flop, the 13 dlr reraise, I might have made it $8 and I would folded to the re-raise. And about theI don limping PF thing, I dont know, I personally would never do it (unless Im playing live at a B&M where the games the table is a zoo). Im very LAG in NL so I tend to raise smaller, just because I do it so often. , I dont wanna get into another 8 pages of this, I understand Smash's point about limping, but again, I raise w/ 75 so limping w/ 10-10 would be a disaster for me. I guess it just depends on your game and your table image.