groan..........

[KOKON Steel 0]

After dominating the $5+$1 3-table NL SNG's on Party. (ROI and ITM on request), I'm finding the $10+$1 2-table NL SNG's on Party to be much harder to maneuver through. The play is much, much worse than the $5 level. You'd think that would make these easier, but I'm finding not yet. (One 4th place cash out of 4 tourneys thusfar. Other placings 14th, 14th, and 10th, uggg). Anyway, I want to post a hand that knocked me out of my nightly tourney. I apologize I couldn't find the converter but it should be pretty easy to decipher. It's only 1 hand for pete's sake. Here goes:Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (8 handed) convertersaw flop|saw showdownButton (t1015)KOKON Steel (t775)BB (t2465)UTG (t2845)UTG+1 (t315)MP1 (t1830)MP2 (t1990)CO (t4330)Preflop: KOKON Steel is SB with [Jc], [Ah]. 5 folds, BB calls t575.Flop: (t875) [Qd], [Qh], [6c] (3 players)Turn: (t875) [8c] (3 players)River: (t875) [Tc] (3 players)Final Pot: t875Main Pot: t875 (t875), between KOKON Steel, BB and UTG+1.Results in white below: KOKON Steel has Jc Ah (one pair, queens). BB has 2h 2c (two pair, queens and twos). UTG+1 has Ac 8h (two pair, queens and eights). Outcome: UTG+1 wins t875. If anyone has any clue as to why "HOTBOX" calls here, Please, PLEASE let me know. If you think I'm wrong, please, please let me know. I value your opinion much more than these idiots at the table who simply said "Dude, she had a pair, you didn't. She's ahead."MOAN. I hate when guys can't admit a female made a horrid, horrid play just because they are trying to hook up with E-chicks.What are your thoughts???

[cdddc75 0]

What are your thoughts???

I think you should either acquaint yourself with the Bad Beats forum or stab yourself with a rusty hockey skate.

[allinbluff35 0]

if you're going to take the time to post, TAKE THE TIME TO USE A FUCKING HAND CONVERTER

[KOKON Steel 0]

What are your thoughts???

I think you should either acquaint yourself with the Bad Beats forum or stab yourself with a rusty hockey skate.

huh? Did I place this in the wrong spot or something?I apologize, do you have any thoughts about the hand?Actually losing to 22 when I hold AJ isn't a bad beat, so I don't think it belongs in a bad beat forum, per se. But her call is bad strategy, which is why it needs to be shown in the Strategy section. I'm not whining about failing to spike one of my 5 outs, I'm just asking if anyone else thinks Hotbox's call is as bad as I think it is, given her situation in this tournament.

[KOKON Steel 0]

if you're going to take the time to post, TAKE THE TIME TO USE A FUCKING HAND CONVERTER

I didn't see it man. I looked on the first page of strategy but didnt see it. Sorry.. you didnt see me apologize at the beginning of the post?

[cdddc75 0]

What are your thoughts???

I think you should either acquaint yourself with the Bad Beats forum or stab yourself with a rusty hockey skate.

huh? Did I place this in the wrong spot or something?I apologize, do you have any thoughts about the hand?

Your post belongs in the Bad Beats section, not the Strategy section.You're not looking for advice, you're complaining.My advice on this hand would be to push and pray, for all parties involved (edited after I saw the blinds). She had more business calling than you did pushing. Click this link if you don't believe me:http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1018516Party's structure blows. I hope this hand shows you why.

[allinbluff35 0]

if you're going to take the time to post, TAKE THE TIME TO USE A FUCKING HAND CONVERTER

I didn't see it man. I looked on the first page of strategy but didnt see it. Sorry.. you didnt see me apologize at the beginning of the post?

it's two posts above this one and says CONVERTER TOOL. no i didn't because I'm not going to read posts that are able to be converted but the OP doesn't take the time to convert them

[KOKON Steel 0]

What are your thoughts???

I think you should either acquaint yourself with the Bad Beats forum or stab yourself with a rusty hockey skate.

huh? Did I place this in the wrong spot or something?I apologize, do you have any thoughts about the hand?

Your post belongs in the Bad Beats section, not the Strategy section.You're not looking for advice, you're complaining.My advice on this hand would be to fold preflop in a nanosecond. She had more business calling than you did pushing.

Losing with AJ to 22 isn't a bad beat. Im not whining. I'm illustrating how her call with 22 is horrible here. I'm crippled, and I try to isolate between me and a guy who was BB next hand for more than 50% of his stack who was probably pushing with Q7. Me re-raising all-in here with only 1 opponent left to call (and trying to isolate) is bad? Really? She had more business calling two allins with 22 than I did re-raising all in here? Please...elaborate.. I'm gonna convert the hand. It wasnt up there when I posted, I'll brb.

[cdddc75 0]

Losing with AJ to 22 isn't a bad beat.  Im not whining.  I'm illustrating how her call with 22 is horrible here.  I'm crippled, and I try to isolate between me and a guy who was BB next hand for more than 50% of his stack who was probably pushing with Q7.  Me re-raising all-in here with only 1 opponent left to call  (and trying to isolate) is bad?  Really?  She had more business calling two allins with 22 than I did re-raising all in here?  Please...elaborate..  I'm gonna convert the hand.  It wasnt up there when I posted, I'll brb.

She was the preflop favorite, even more so against two Ax hands.She only folds if she hates money.

[KOKON Steel 0]

Losing with AJ to 22 isn't a bad beat.  Im not whining.  I'm illustrating how her call with 22 is horrible here.  I'm crippled, and I try to isolate between me and a guy who was BB next hand for more than 50% of his stack who was probably pushing with Q7.  Me re-raising all-in here with only 1 opponent left to call  (and trying to isolate) is bad?  Really?  She had more business calling two allins with 22 than I did re-raising all in here?  Please...elaborate..  I'm gonna convert the hand.  It wasnt up there when I posted, I'll brb.

She was the preflop favorite, even more so against two Ax hands.She only folds if she hates money.

yet she's dominated by any other pair. and she has absolutely no reason to put more chips at risk here.Granted, she's got to put UTG+1 on junk, but when I re-raise all in she has to assume it's time to fold. What are the odds of holding up with 22 against 2 all-ins? Not good. she's not going to win this enough to justify calling a 575 raise for a pot of about 1300. This is a tournament, not cash game. 10 people left, it pays top 4. No reason for her to call here. Not good enough to justify her

[RISEorFall 0]

She was the preflop favorite, even more so against two Ax hands.She only folds if she hates money.

I seriously doubt they figured they were the favorite in this hand. THey were probably more or less thinking "well, i have enough chips to call, and it'd be hilarious to beat 2 all-ins with pocket 2s. pocket 2s, that's funny."And you would really call 2 all-ins with pocket 2s? You're a slight favorite heads up, but against 2 random hands that could both be a coinflip against you you're more than likely an underdog. The only justification they have in calling here is that they're getting decent odds and they have the chips to do it. Which isn't bad reasoning, in this case. Had they not had that big of a stack and been in the BB this should be a fold.

[cdddc75 0]

Granted, she's got to put UTG+1 on junk, but when I re-raise all in she has to assume it's time to fold.  What are the odds of holding up with 22 against 2 all-ins?  Not good.  she's not going to win this enough to justify calling a 575 raise for a pot of about 1300.  This is a tournament, not cash game.  10 people left, it pays top 4.  No reason for her to call here.  Not good enough to justify her

Use the Bet the Pot format for the converter. It will help. As I recall, her stack was 575 or so. With less than three big blinds left, I'd love to take my chances at tripling up with any pair. If both of you are pushing Ax with short stacks, she's guessed correctly and is in great shape. If one of you has an overpair, she's screwed. With her stack size, she's equally screwed if she doesn't go for the near triple up in this spot. She can't limp her way to the money.I don't know why this hand puzzles you at all. This is an easy, easy, easy, easy call for 22 against two desperately short stacks. Apologizes if I misread her stack size. It doesn't really change much here though.

[cdddc75 0]

She was the preflop favorite, even more so against two Ax hands.She only folds if she hates money.

I seriously doubt they figured they were the favorite in this hand. THey were probably more or less thinking "well, i have enough chips to call, and it'd be hilarious to beat 2 all-ins with pocket 2s. pocket 2s, that's funny."And you would really call 2 all-ins with pocket 2s? You're a slight favorite heads up, but against 2 random hands that could both be a coinflip against you you're more than likely an underdog. The only justification they have in calling here is that they're getting decent odds and they have the chips to do it. Which isn't bad reasoning, in this case. Had they not had that big of a stack and been in the BB this should be a fold.

Compare the stack sizes to the blinds. It's much more likely that the allins have marginal hands here than normal. Being against two "random" hands actually helps 22 out if each random hand contains one of the same card. Even if the first all in has her crushed, she can nearly get her bet back by beating the second all in on the side pot. Easy call.

[KOKON Steel 0]

Granted, she's got to put UTG+1 on junk, but when I re-raise all in she has to assume it's time to fold.  What are the odds of holding up with 22 against 2 all-ins?  Not good.  she's not going to win this enough to justify calling a 575 raise for a pot of about 1300.  This is a tournament, not cash game.  10 people left, it pays top 4.  No reason for her to call here.  Not good enough to justify her

Use the Bet the Pot format for the converter. It will help. As I recall, her stack was 575 or so. With less than three big blinds left, I'd love to take my chances at tripling up with any pair. If both of you are pushing Ax with short stacks, she's guessed correctly and is in great shape. If one of you has an overpair, she's screwed. With her stack size, she's equally screwed if she doesn't go for the near triple up in this spot. She can't limp her way to the money.I don't know why this hand puzzles you at all. This is an easy, easy, easy, easy call for 22 against two desperately short stacks. Apologizes if I misread her stack size. It doesn't really change much here though.

Her stack size was like 2400 to begin the hand, 2200 after posting. 575 more to call my raise!You drastically misread her stack if you think SHE had 575. I had 775 to begin (575 more when I pushed).Her call here absolutely sucks. No two ways about it. How is folding 22 with 2200 chips when the blinds are 100/200 to 2 allins "Limping into the money"?lol.

[KOKON Steel 0]

She was the preflop favorite, even more so against two Ax hands.She only folds if she hates money.

I seriously doubt they figured they were the favorite in this hand. THey were probably more or less thinking "well, i have enough chips to call, and it'd be hilarious to beat 2 all-ins with pocket 2s. pocket 2s, that's funny."And you would really call 2 all-ins with pocket 2s? You're a slight favorite heads up, but against 2 random hands that could both be a coinflip against you you're more than likely an underdog. The only justification they have in calling here is that they're getting decent odds and they have the chips to do it. Which isn't bad reasoning, in this case. Had they not had that big of a stack and been in the BB this should be a fold.

Compare the stack sizes to the blinds. It's much more likely that the allins have marginal hands here than normal. Being against two "random" hands actually helps 22 out if each random hand contains one of the same card. Even if the first all in has her crushed, she can nearly get her bet back by beating the second all in on the side pot. Easy call.

You are way off. I have no reason to push here with crap. I can fold and still have 675 left which buys me a few more hands. (Not to mention I'd just folded in the BB AND SB, she had to notice. ) There's no way she puts me on junk here. UTG+1 sure, and if he's on junk ....say ...Q7, then she can't assume me and him are "sharing" cards. I'm obviously not pushing here with something remotely as bad as UTG+1 is. Her call here is horrid considering her position in the tourney. Horrid, horrid, horrid, horrid, horrid, one of the worst ever.

[RISEorFall 0]

I don't think "easy call", but in this situation not a bad call. Even if you're up against only 3 overcards that makes 22 a dog, and there's no way to be sure that you're only up against 3. I can't really see the hand because when OP tried to convert it it didn't work or something, so I'm going off of what i gathered from replies. 22 is BB right?

[KOKON Steel 0]

I don't think "easy call", but in this situation not a bad call. Even if you're up against only 3 overcards that makes 22 a dog, and there's no way to be sure that you're only up against 3.  I can't really see the hand because when OP tried to convert it it didn't work or something, so I'm going off of what i gathered from replies. 22 is BB right?

yeah i used bet the pot and it's F-ing up for some reason. I have everything checked except "hide your cards and identity". I dont know what the deal is. Basically UTG+1 pushes in for 315 when the BB is hitting him in 2 hands for 200 bucks. It folds around to me who tries to isolate with AJ (putting him on A-rag, a pair lower than Jacks, or horrid garbage), and I get called instantly by the BB who was in for 200 and it was 575 more to her.She calls roughly 25% of her remaining stack with 22 against two all-ins before her. This, when she is relatively "comfortable" and has no need to get involved in nominal situations.She's got to assume she's up against 4 overs. Or a pair of sh.itty 3's or better. If I fold here it's an auto-call for her for only 115 more to win 615.But not when I re-raise all-in.

[RISEorFall 0]

Her call here is horrid considering her position in the tourney.  Horrid, horrid, horrid, horrid, horrid, one of the worst ever.

This does make u sound like u just want everyone to go "yeah, she should've folded, that sux." You wanted opinions you got them. If all you're going to do is yell at people who give you their opinion, quit asking. This is by no means a horrible, horrible call. IMO it's a marginal call, and by some opinions it's an easy call. But it's not horrible.

[KOKON Steel 0]

Her call here is horrid considering her position in the tourney.  Horrid, horrid, horrid, horrid, horrid, one of the worst ever.

This does make u sound like u just want everyone to go "yeah, she should've folded, that sux." You wanted opinions you got them. If all you're going to do is yell at people who give you their opinion, quit asking. This is by no means a horrible, horrible call. IMO it's a marginal call, and by some opinions it's an easy call. But it's not horrible.

lol. I'm not yelling at you!I just think its a horrid call. Generally, to call two all-ins ahead of you, you need a significantly strong hand. Not 22.People who generally call 1 all-in with 22 are generally bad players.There are 10 players left. 1 is about to go out. If she folds here she's 10% ahead of the average stack. Tourney pays top 4. Why does she call a re-raise which puts her chipstack down to about 1600 here with 22? I just don't get it.

[cdddc75 0]

Granted, she's got to put UTG+1 on junk, but when I re-raise all in she has to assume it's time to fold.  What are the odds of holding up with 22 against 2 all-ins?  Not good.  she's not going to win this enough to justify calling a 575 raise for a pot of about 1300.  This is a tournament, not cash game.  10 people left, it pays top 4.  No reason for her to call here.  Not good enough to justify her

Use the Bet the Pot format for the converter. It will help. As I recall, her stack was 575 or so. With less than three big blinds left, I'd love to take my chances at tripling up with any pair. If both of you are pushing Ax with short stacks, she's guessed correctly and is in great shape. If one of you has an overpair, she's screwed. With her stack size, she's equally screwed if she doesn't go for the near triple up in this spot. She can't limp her way to the money.I don't know why this hand puzzles you at all. This is an easy, easy, easy, easy call for 22 against two desperately short stacks. Apologizes if I misread her stack size. It doesn't really change much here though.

Her stack size was like 2400 to begin the hand, 2200 after posting. 575 more to call my raise!You drastically misread her stack if you think SHE had 575. I had 775 to begin (575 more when I pushed).Her call here absolutely sucks. No two ways about it. How is folding 22 with 2200 chips when the blinds are 100/200 to 2 allins "Limping into the money"?lol.

I saw her call originally and thought she was calling all in. Thanks for converting the hand, that helps!She's getting 2.24:1 (1290/575) to call here, with zero implied odds. Since you posted the results already (don't do that in the future, no worries here), I already know that her hand is much better than the odds she's getting. The only way her call is mathematically incorrect is if she KNOWS you pushed over the top with a pocket pair. With your small stack size, I'll take my chances that you don't have a pair.Look at the possibilities if she calls:1. She takes you both out and moves up to 3550 or so and is now second of eight instead of third of ten.2. She takes you out and loses to UTG+1. She makes 145 chips and eliminates a player. 3. You both beat her and she falls to 1690. She's only a few chips out of fourth.Like I said earlier, she only folds if she hates money. Folding here is incredibly weak/tight.You should learn how to take advice when you ask for it. When someone shows you an alternate point of view, think about it before dismissing it.If you still think her call still sucks, you might ask yourself why you're not hitting the money at this level.

[cdddc75 0]

I just think its a horrid call.  Generally, to call two all-ins ahead of you, you need a significantly strong hand.  Not 22.People who generally call 1 all-in with 22 are generally bad players.

Who cares about general statements? Calling was right under almost every scenario. Your "I pushed over the top to isolate" comment kills me. It's not like you had a stack that worried her.Continue thinking this is a horrid call while you watch yourself lose before the money again and again.

[KOKON Steel 0]

Against 4 overs here, she's about 30% to win. So she calls a 575 raise, that means the pot has to have about 1950 in it before she calls. It only has 1300 in it. Now...running the numbers with another pair in there...Say the first guy has something like Q7, and I re-raise all in with 88, she's only 17% to win. That means the pot would have to be about 3200 for her call to make sense.The ONLY thing she has going for her is the knowledge that there will be no further betting so she can't get bluffed out of the hand.That's it.The call is horrible. Given her situation.

[KOKON Steel 0]

Your "I pushed over the top to isolate" comment kills me.  It's not like you had a stack that worried her.LOL.  I GUESS YOU'RE RIGHT!  HAD I KNOWN A 575 RAISE WOULDNT GET HER TO FOLD 22 IN THIS SPOT, I"D NOT HAVE MOVED ALL IN!LOL.  Isn't that hysterical?  Most quality players will be scared out of the pot with double-deuces here for 25% more of their chipstack.  Keep thinking they won't.Continue thinking this is a horrid call while you watch yourself lose before the money again and again.

Sure thing buddy. Why are you so antagonistic?

[KOKON Steel 0]

Don't get me wrong, I do value limit ring players' opinion CDDC, but I think i'm going to go to bed now. I'll be back tomorrow night and hopefully some more NL tournament players will have responded.I value your opinion, sir.Please sleep on it. Maybe tomorrow you'll see my viewpoint.Later,K. STEEL

[cdddc75 0]

Against 4 overs here, she's about 30% to win.  So she calls a 575 raise, that means the pot has to have about 1950 in it before she calls.  It only has 1300 in it.  Now...running the numbers with another pair in there...Say the first guy has something like Q7, and I re-raise all in with 88, she's only 17% to win.  That means the pot would have to be about 3200 for her call to make sense.The ONLY thing she has going for her is the knowledge that there will be no further betting so she can't get bluffed out of the hand.That's it.The call is horrible.  Given her situation.

Stop using bad math to justify your illogical argument. The numbers make it a slightly profitable call from a pot odds perspective against four overcards of different suits. Since you're not good with math, I'll link you the proof that she has nearly 32% pot equity against four unpaired overcards:http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1018588Given the additional possibility of eliminating two players while putting yourself in minimal jeopardy of missing the money, and calling with 22 should be automatic against four unpaired overcards.Like I said, the only way that her call is bad is if you have an overpair. Kudos to her for seeing right through your attempt to shut her out of the pot with an inferior hand to hers. Not only is she a lot smarter than you think she is, she actually appears to be much better at poker than you are. Maybe that's why she was at t2645 and you were at t775 before the hand...The only horrible thing about this situation is that you refuse to see any logic that contradicts your own terribly flawed logic.