58 replies to this topic

[Snowman]

What would you all do in this spot? Pot limit hold 'em.Texas Hold'em $0.25-$0.25 PL (real money)Seat 1: BB ($28.65 in chips)Seat 2: UTG ($15.25 in chips)Seat 3: UTG+1 ($13.30 in chips)Seat 4: HERO ($42.60 in chips)Seat 5: MP1 ($31.05 in chips)Seat 6: MP2 ($7.80 in chips)Seat 7: LP ($11.35 in chips)Seat 8: CO ($7.50 in chips)Seat 9: Button ($4.35 in chips)Seat 10: SB ($40.90 in chips)ANTES/BLINDSSB posts blind ($0.25), BB posts blind ($0.25).HERO is dealt [ 2C, 2H ]PRE-FLOPUTG folds, UTG+1 calls $0.25, HERO calls $0.25, MP1 bets $1, 3 folds, Button calls $1, SB calls $0.75, BB folds, UTG+1 calls $0.75, HERO calls $0.75.Maybe too loose, but a set on the flop and I could get paid good and the pot is pretty big.FLOP [board cards 7D,2D,10H ] (Pot: $5)Yay, there's my 2.SB checks, UTG+1 checks, HERO checks, I usually don't slowplay, but it happens once in a while and from what I've seen so far I'm pretty sure that MP1 will bet out so I plan check-raise.MP1 bets $5.25, Yep, according to plan. Then hell breaks loose...Button folds, SB bets $21, UTG+1 calls $12.30 and is all-in, HERO ???What do I do now? SB and I both have a stack of about $40, MP1 has about $30. The pot is $43.55 at this point if I got the math right.P.S. I liked the idea someone said of putting the type of game in the topic, so I did that.

[Smasharoo]

Easiest push ever.Overests happen, if it's that, oh well.Most of the time it's like 89d and ATd or a grossly overplayed big pair.All of which you're crushing.

[zimmer4141]

It's an easy push here. You hit your set, you have to go with it. There are 2 hands that have you beat right now, and even against top 2 and a draw, you should be about 50% to win, definitely getting the pot odds to call.

[Blink20]

Every response is right, you just have to go all in and hope that there isn't a higher set out there, in those cases, you have to pay off the higher set. People could be going all in with two pair, a flush draw, overpairs, tptk. Push all in and take down the big pot :-) ...By the way, thank you for putting the game in the title of the post. I will take this opportunity to take credit for that :-) , now lets all do that and I can not have to worry about opening a limit post (blah)... Just to clarify as I always do, I respect limit, its a truly tough game, but I prefer nl.

[Petoria]

Smasharoo said:

Easiest push ever.Overests happen, if it's that, oh well.Most of the time it's like 89d and ATd or a grossly overplayed big pair.All of which you're crushing.

You say that so much that it's lost all meaning. It is true this time though.

[Snowman]

Blink20 said:

. Push all in and take down the big pot :-) ...

That's what I did except for the take-down-the-big-pot part as I was totally dominated by SB's pocket 7s and finally losing the pot to MP1 who called with the nut flush draw and hit it on the river...Btw, the final pot was $129.10, which is the largest I've seen so far.I wanted to post this because I started questioning myself afterwards. I was afraid SB had a set, but I guess that that would be too narrow a range of hands to put him on.

Blink20 said:

By the way, thank you for putting the game in the title of the post. I will take this opportunity to take credit for that :-) , now lets all do that and I can not have to worry about opening a limit post (blah)... Just to clarify as I always do, I respect limit, its a truly tough game, but I prefer nl.

No problem. Didn't remember who it was that posted it originally, but it's a good idea.

[allinbluff35]

bet the flop, maybe about $4 and then if it's raised and reraised and it's back to you I could fold

[Snowman]

allinbluff35 said:

bet the flop, maybe about $4 and then if it's raised and reraised and it's back to you I could fold

Most of the time I do bet the flop here, but I like to change how I play now and then even though it's not really necessary at this level as you get paid off most of the time anyway.

[Blink20]

allinbluff35 said:

bet the flop, maybe about $4 and then if it's raised and reraised and it's back to you I could fold

You are giving up way too much money by folding a set in this spot, even if this scenario happens, youbetting and g etting raised and reraised. There are just t oo many other likely holdings of your opponents to not call or move in here.Edit: Look at the limit he's playing, that says enough. You have to go with the set.

[cdddc75]

I'd lose my stack just like you did.Nothing wrong with your play.

[Absolute]

This is a horrible flop check. Absolutely horrible.Bet the pot.Also nothing is wrong with allinbluff's advice here. I would definitely consider a fold when it is two raises to me with bottom set in such a multiway pot. I think calling is correct, but a fold should be a consideration.Reads would help tons. Do you have stats on these players?

[Blink20]

Absolute said:

This is a horrible flop check. Absolutely horrible.Bet the pot.Also nothing is wrong with allinbluff's advice here. I would definitely consider a fold when it is two raises to me with bottom set in such a multiway pot. I think calling is correct, but a fold should be a consideration.Reads would help tons. Do you have stats on these players?

I disagree. The flop check isn't that horrible of a play at all considering the texture of the flop. He is in perfect position to get a pot built up and make a huge bet when the action gets around to him. The preflop raiser (MP1) is directly on his left and he was right in assuming that he would make a continuation bet on the flop. This makes it that every other player after the MP1 must act on his bet and the action will end on the Hero, who will be able to put in a bigger bet due to a bigger pot.When you are in favorable position to the preflop raiser, a check raise is perfectly acceptable.Again, there is no reason to fold a set, despite two raises in front of you. The sb could have easily flopped top two pair, and the utg could have a big flush draw with overcards or even slow playing an overpair, or at these limits, just tptk. The times you go in with a set in a action heavy pot where you do run into a higher set, are negated by the times that you run into novices overplaying their hands. Like I said before, look at the limits, you are not going to fold a set especially on a flop of this texture.

[Absolute]

Blink20 said:

Absolute said:

This is a horrible flop check. Absolutely horrible.Bet the pot.Also nothing is wrong with allinbluff's advice here. I would definitely consider a fold when it is two raises to me with bottom set in such a multiway pot. I think calling is correct, but a fold should be a consideration.Reads would help tons. Do you have stats on these players?

I disagree. The flop check isn't that horrible of a play at all considering the texture of the flop. He is in perfect position to get a pot built up and make a huge bet when the action gets around to him. The preflop raiser (MP1) is directly on his left and he was right in assuming that he would make a continuation bet on the flop. This makes it that every other player after the MP1 must act on his bet and the action will end on the Hero, who will be able to put in a bigger bet due to a bigger pot.When you are in favorable position to the preflop raiser, a check raise is perfectly acceptable.Again, there is no reason to fold a set, despite two raises in front of you. The sb could have easily flopped top two pair, and the utg could have a big flush draw with overcards or even slow playing an overpair, or at these limits, just tptk. The times you go in with a set in a action heavy pot where you do run into a higher set, are negated by the times that you run into novices overplaying their hands. Like I said before, look at the limits, you are not going to fold a set especially on a flop of this texture.

Do you understand the conditions that must be met for slowplaying?I will take a guess and say no, but amuse me.

[Blink20]

Absolute said:

Blink20 said:

Absolute said:

This is a horrible flop check. Absolutely horrible.Bet the pot.Also nothing is wrong with allinbluff's advice here. I would definitely consider a fold when it is two raises to me with bottom set in such a multiway pot. I think calling is correct, but a fold should be a consideration.Reads would help tons. Do you have stats on these players?

I disagree. The flop check isn't that horrible of a play at all considering the texture of the flop. He is in perfect position to get a pot built up and make a huge bet when the action gets around to him. The preflop raiser (MP1) is directly on his left and he was right in assuming that he would make a continuation bet on the flop. This makes it that every other player after the MP1 must act on his bet and the action will end on the Hero, who will be able to put in a bigger bet due to a bigger pot.When you are in favorable position to the preflop raiser, a check raise is perfectly acceptable.Again, there is no reason to fold a set, despite two raises in front of you. The sb could have easily flopped top two pair, and the utg could have a big flush draw with overcards or even slow playing an overpair, or at these limits, just tptk. The times you go in with a set in a action heavy pot where you do run into a higher set, are negated by the times that you run into novices overplaying their hands. Like I said before, look at the limits, you are not going to fold a set especially on a flop of this texture.

Do you understand the conditions that must be met for slowplaying?I will take a guess and say no, but amuse me.

I already outlined why the check raise was acceptable in my response that you quoted. It is really simple to see why it will work fine in this situation. Granted there is a two flush on the flop, but he is playing pot limit, so that means he can only bet what is in the pot. (i will clarify everything for you)He specifically stated he had a read on the MP1 and it is safe to assume the preflop raiser will fire out a continuation bet on the flop. What is the best way to build a big pot and protect your hand in this situation? Checking to the preflop raiser (right on your left, first to act after you), he fires his continuation bet, the other players either call, fold or raise, the action gets back around to you, more money in the pot, you raise the size of the pot. And that happens to be how it played out in this example.

[Snowman]

Blink20 said:

I already outlined why the check raise was acceptable in my response that you quoted. It is really simple to see why it will work fine in this situation. Granted there is a two flush on the flop, but he is playing pot limit, so that means he can only bet what is in the pot. (i will clarify everything for you)He specifically stated he had a read on the MP1 and it is safe to assume the preflop raiser will fire out a continuation bet on the flop. What is the best way to build a big pot and protect your hand in this situation? Checking to the preflop raiser (right on your left, first to act after you), he fires his continuation bet, the other players either call, fold or raise, the action gets back around to you, more money in the pot, you raise the size of the pot. And that happens to be how it played out in this example.

This is exactly my thinking.I said in another post that I normally bet this flop, but I want to mix up my play a bit and I don't think this is a bad play.

Absolute said:

Do you understand the conditions that must be met for slowplaying?I will take a guess and say no, but amuse me.

Check-raising is not the same as slowplaying so the conditions don't apply. It would be a mistake on my part if he checks, but it's not because of the slowplaying conditions.Edit: I looked at my original post and the wording of my thoughts on the flop was unfortunate. I shouldn't have mentioned slowplay.Also, I should have said in the OP that UTG+1 is a total fish, he could have anything.

[Absolute]

A check-raise is not correct here either.Betting this flop is standard.

[Snowman]

Absolute said:

A check-raise is not correct here either.Betting this flop is standard.

Care to elaborate?

[TheIceman05]

Absolute said:

A check-raise is not correct here either.Betting this flop is standard.

You have this habit of forwarding your terrible opinions on the game of poker like they are accepted fact. There's nothing wrong with checking to an aggressive player here, and trying to win a big pot. Ice