ATL 0 Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 Hi everyone. I've been lurking for a bit, but this is my first post.Please give me advice on the following hand. I'd appreciate any commentary as to whether you think my reasoning is flawed. I've only been playing for about four months (only online at Stars) and have had a decent amount of success at the SNG's ($5-$50). I did well playing $.25/$.50 NL cash games for a couple of months before moving to $.5/$1 NL where I've had mixed success (combination of bad luck and questionable play). In general, I think I have become too passive in my play due to a lot of bad beats by people making horrendous calls and think the following hand probably exemplifies this.For this hand, I've only been at the table for about 15 min. The table is a typical loose-passive one. I haven't gotten any cards since I sat down and have only played one hand where I lost a decent sized pot on the river (again). I started w/$80 and am down to about $65. I took some bad beats at another table before joining this one, but don't think I'm on tilt.PRE-FLOP:MP1 (immediately to my right) limps. He has about $40.I limp from MP2 w/10s-8s.CO limps. Has about $50.SB completes.BB checks. Has about $80.I know there will probably be some criticism for playing 10-8 suited out of position, and I'm fine with that. In general, I'm trying to loosen up my pre-flop play some and think that is a good hand to do it with, particularly considering there has been very little pre-flop raising at the table.FLOP:Qd-Jd-9cSB checks. BB bets $3. MP1 raises to $6. I call the $6. CO calls. SB folds. BB raise to $12. MP1 (original raiser) folds. I call. CO calls. So pot is now at about $47.Here's my thought process. Obviously, this is a good flop for me, but there is also reason to be concerned. There is a flush draw on the board and K-10 has me beat. After BB started the betting for $3, I intended to make a large raise to get rid of any flush draws, but MP1's raise threw me off a little bit and I started to fear K-10 from him. I decided to call and just see how the hand developed. I think this is probably the point where I made my mistake, but in the past I have gotten myself into a lot of trouble by overplaying here (still 5 players in the hand) and running into the K-10. Also, I seem to have made a habit of losing to flushes on the river so my mindset is to slow down a bit. Would you have made a large re-raise here? Once BB raises to $12 I really start to fear the K-10. No matter what he has, this is a terrible re-raise IMO. If he has K-10, he is making a poor play by letting the flush draws stick around. If he has 2 pair or a set, that has to be a very scary board for him and I can't see the logic in the re-raise. I really don't know what to put him on but at this point decide to stick it out. It has been my experience at this level that if I do fold and BB takes the hand, he's as likely to flash Q-7 as he is a set or K-10. What would your play have been here after BB re-raises to $12? After the CO calls, but doesn't push, I'm fairly certain he's on a flush drawTURN3cBB bets $10. I call. CO calls.RIVER7dBB bets $10. I call. CO re-raises all-in (to $11). CO takes the hand with the nut flush. I never saw BB's hand.Please give me any advice here. Obviously my play in this hand was very passive, but maybe passive was right here, I'm just not sure. What would you have put BB on and how would you have played the hand differently? Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites
rapperwilly 0 Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 Yeah, I think off the flop you needed to push in more chips. With the current nuts and a fair amount in the pot you MUST get the drawers out. After the BB reraises 12 dollars, The best thing to do would be slide. I know you probably would not wanna put all your chips in so early but with three in the pot, any diamond or board pair could hurt your hand. Calling is not that bad, but after the turn didn't bring a "scare card", you definitely shoulda put it all in, The BB was definitely trying to get you and that other dude outta the hand, but with the top hand you definitely shoulda played stronger and tried to do what the BB succeeded in doing and that is win the pot. Link to post Share on other sites
wrto4556 0 Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 I think you should have re-raised on the flop. How are you going to find out if you're beat by just calling? If you raise and are re-raised then your straight is no good. Another benifit of raising is to drive out the flush draw. Raising the flop was your best optiong, and folding to the flush bet. IMHO. Link to post Share on other sites
mdm2283 0 Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 In the hand you are discussing i believe u should have jammed them on the flop with a stiff bet. Yes it is a valid point to fear the nut straight. But then again what are the chances. I think the big blind had a pocket pair they weren't certain to raise with pre-flop. I think if u woulda re-raised or pushed it all in the bb woulda called with a set maybe? The flush draw woulda probably backed down with their cards. I agree though u can't win an uncertain hand by just callin u need to re-raise to get a feel for what u are up against. Link to post Share on other sites
MasterLJ 0 Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 This is a tough scenario. I can't count how many times I see people actually BET on flushes they don't have. It's a 37% draw AT BEST but people do it with some consistency. I've seen people cap on flush draws when there are two like-suited cards on the flop. My solution is to always flush-the-flush. If you have a made hand, raise big. There's only one possible hand that can beat you, and that's about a 2/169 shot if you are just looking for a specific generic K10 (suited or not). It's better to win small than to lose big. If someone wants to pay to be dominated 2 to 1, let them. They will win sometimes, but you win more in the long run. Link to post Share on other sites
wrto4556 0 Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 This is a tough scenario. I can't count how many times I see people actually BET on flushes they don't have. It's a 37% draw AT BEST but people do it with some consistency. I've seen people cap on flush draws when there are two like-suited cards on the flop. My solution is to always flush-the-flush. If you have a made hand, raise big. There's only one possible hand that can beat you, and that's about a 2/169 shot if you are just looking for a specific generic K10 (suited or not). It's better to win small than to lose big. If someone wants to pay to be dominated 2 to 1, let them. They will win sometimes, but you win more in the long run.In some cases, it is correct to cap the betting with a good draw due to pot equity (e.g. Flush or Open Ended Straight Draws). Link to post Share on other sites
Eskimo 0 Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 Would you have made a large re-raise here? Absolutely. Link to post Share on other sites
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