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Official Alt-Right Neo Nazi Thread


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#81 FCP Bob

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Posted 07 February 2017 - 02:11 PM

View PostDubey, on 07 February 2017 - 01:30 PM, said:


Of course this would never happen because NRA.

it would never happen not because of the NRA but because whether us wimpy Canadians like it or not gun culture is real in the US and that kind of gun control won't be supported. The changes have to be incremental, it's those incremental changes that the NRA is holding back.
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#82 Scrim

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Posted 07 February 2017 - 02:57 PM

View PostFCP Bob, on 07 February 2017 - 02:11 PM, said:

The changes have to be incremental, it's those incremental changes that the NRA is holding back.

Incrementalism is why they fight every incrament tooth and nail... Whenever trying to pass the next 'common sense gun control' and someone warns that it's just one step towards even harsher policies, they try to claim you're just being 'paranoid' or 'the slippery slope fallacy' but anyone not naive knows that the incremental approach is indeed the only way gun bans can happen.

So the next time the NRA opposes a seemingly 'common sense gun control', remember you said this because you just forfeited your ability to call them paranoid.

View PostDubey, on 07 February 2017 - 01:30 PM, said:

Of course this would never happen because NRA.

It would never happen because the American people don't want that bullshit... and if you got that, it's just a pretext to fully ban guns the first time someone who has jumped through all the hoops does something heinous with a firearm.

https://en.wikipedia...olitical_impact

https://en.wikipedia...ts_consequences
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#83 Dubey

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Posted 07 February 2017 - 03:25 PM

I don't claim to be an expert in Australian gun control. But I believe they implemented something similar to what I wrote (although I believe less severe) now, 20 years after that massacre, despite there being more overall guns in Australia than before, gun deaths are way down. (59% according to your link)

And of course it wouldn't eliminate gun homicide, or even mass shootings. But over time, it would have a country wide affect on the ease of access to guns, and make people more responsible for their own firearms.


But you are right, the people DON'T want that, they didn't want it in Australia in '96 either. I just don't see that as a good enough reason to not implement stricter gun controls.

#84 brvheart

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Posted 07 February 2017 - 03:32 PM

Can someone write me a script to just auto-like any post Scram makes?

View PostiZuma, on 20 August 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

napa I was jesus christing suited, you guys just slipped in before me.

View PostEssay21, on 25 February 2013 - 08:32 PM, said:

.

#85 Fenxis

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Posted 07 February 2017 - 07:40 PM

It's the same script BG uses but it sources wikipedia instead of alt-right news.
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#86 Balloon guy

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Posted 07 February 2017 - 08:36 PM

I go out of my way to link news sources from 'msm' even though they have been consistently faulty. You would know that if you care enough to check, but you're pre-conceived world view forbids this action.

This is because people on the left are emotionally invested in their delusion and can wave away facts by invoking their: "Did you hear that on Fox News?" mantra.

The only Alt-Right site I read is Vox Day because he's hilarious and almost always right. The rest of my news I get from the Rush Limbaugh show.
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#87 Balloon guy

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Posted 07 February 2017 - 08:41 PM

View PostDubey, on 07 February 2017 - 01:30 PM, said:

Guns stay completely legal.

-Force everybody to register every gun currently in their possession.
-No private selling of guns.
-Gun registration works like Vehicle registration and licenses must be renewed yearly.
-Must pass gun safety course in order to be approved for registration
-extensive background check, 1 on 1 interview etc.. for any gun purchase. Think Nexus card application levels of scrutiny.
-Any lost or stolen guns must be reported immediately and logged in the database
-Illegal to fire or be carrying a gun that is not registered to you personally
-Heavy financial penalties to both parties if above law is broken
-If a gun is found to be used in a crime, whoever the gun is registered to is held at least partially responsible. (ie. manslaughter charge if your brother uses a gun and kills somebody)
-No concealed or open carry allowed in any scenario outside of private property
-Heavy punishment if above law is broken (jail, fine etc..)
-Heavy tax on Ammunition (price of Ammo should go up 10x or more)

Of course this would never happen because NRA.

Almost everything you list is the current law in California. in fact most of them are.

I do love that you think imposing heavy fines and punishment on people who break these laws will result in fewer gun deaths.

"I was gonna shoot that guy, but then I realized that the new 'you'll get in trouble if you use an illegal gun' law was put in place so I decided I couldn't shoot that guy."


Because shooting the guy wasn't a worse crime.........
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#88 Balloon guy

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Posted 07 February 2017 - 11:10 PM

View PostDubey, on 07 February 2017 - 03:25 PM, said:

I don't claim to be an expert in Australian gun control. But I believe they implemented something similar to what I wrote (although I believe less severe) now, 20 years after that massacre, despite there being more overall guns in Australia than before, gun deaths are way down. (59% according to your link)

And of course it wouldn't eliminate gun homicide, or even mass shootings. But over time, it would have a country wide affect on the ease of access to guns, and make people more responsible for their own firearms.


But you are right, the people DON'T want that, they didn't want it in Australia in '96 either. I just don't see that as a good enough reason to not implement stricter gun controls.


Except the cherry picked stats don't bear out

Quote



Despite Australia’s strict gun control regime, criminals are now better armed than at any time since then-Prime Minister John Howard introduced a nationwide firearm buyback scheme in response to the 1996 Port Arthur massacre.

Quote


The investigation has found:
  • There have been at least 99 shootings in the past 20 months - more than one incident a week since January 2015
  • Known criminals were caught with firearms 755 times last year, compared to 143 times in 2011
  • The epicentre of the problem is a triangle between Coolaroo, Campbellfield and Glenroy in the north-west, with Cranbourne, Narre Warren and Dandenong in the south-east close behind
  • Criminals are using gunshot wounds to the arms and legs as warnings to pay debts
  • Assault rifles and handguns are being smuggled into Australia via shipments of electronics and metal parts

I know its some right wing mag from Australia, the bastion for right wing mags. But you can find all kinds of data on the interweb.

Or you can pretend that taking guns from law abiding citizens will result in criminals not having guns somehow...because lawz

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#89 Scrim

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Posted 07 February 2017 - 11:52 PM

View PostDubey, on 07 February 2017 - 03:25 PM, said:

And of course it wouldn't eliminate gun homicide, or even mass shootings. But over time, it would have a country wide affect on the ease of access to guns, and make people more responsible for their own firearms.

You're trying to sell the idea that people who want to ban guns have anything in mind other than banning them all.
The formula is quite simple.
Horrible tragedy + firearm = the need for more gun control.

We all agree that gun tragedies will exist as long as guns do, meaning that there will never be a time when gun controllers are not calling for more controls and ultimately, bans.

While an AR15 with a Beta C mag is particularly brutal in a movie theater or a gay nightclub, it's not like if the bodycount had been 14 with a shotgun rather than 49 with an AR15, the usual suspects calling for 'common sense gun control' would've taken pause and said "well, this is just one of those things that happens in a society that has guns... see, our focus is really on those lethal killing machines and not these kinds of guns that were just used, here..."

They absolutely want to see that gun banned, too, along with all the rest, which extinguishes their credibility when they try to claim that banning Gun X is 'common sense'.

This is why gun owners never give an inch and they never will.
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#90 Fenxis

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 06:53 AM

View PostScrim, on 07 February 2017 - 11:52 PM, said:

We all agree that gun tragedies will exist as long as guns do, meaning that there will never be a time when gun controllers are not calling for more controls and ultimately, bans.

In some ways, given the 'gun culture' in the United States I wonder if we are fighting over the symptom and not the cause. Of big concern is how 'private' gun shows bypass the need for police checks, people on the no-fly list aren't excluded from buying guns, the mentally incompetent can buy again, etc.

But some ideas culturewise:

- have more responsibility about gun ownership -- ie: if a kid finds a loaded gun in your night-side table and blows away a sibling should you be responsible for manslaughter.
- disaffection from not fulfilling the American Dream: the attitude that if you aren't a millionaire then it's because you just didn't try hard enough -> workplace shoot-ups.
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#91 Dubey

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 07:35 AM

I don't really think "overall gun deaths in the country" is a cherry picked stat.

And yes, criminals are going to get guns. Criminals in Canada can get guns too, it's just harder for them. Doesn't mean we should just throw up our hands and give up. Making it harder for criminals to get guns is still a good thing.

And there seems to be this notion that armed criminals and an unarmed public is some huge public health crisis. I mean, it's not a war. Criminals aren't meeting civilians on a battlefront that is going to end up with civilians getting slaughtered because they don't have enough guns.

#92 Dubey

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 07:43 AM

View PostBalloon guy, on 07 February 2017 - 08:41 PM, said:


I do love that you think imposing heavy fines and punishment on people who break these laws will result in fewer gun deaths.

"I was gonna shoot that guy, but then I realized that the new 'you'll get in trouble if you use an illegal gun' law was put in place so I decided I couldn't shoot that guy."


Because shooting the guy wasn't a worse crime.........

You aren't getting it. It's not about making shooting a gun a crime. It's about making everyone responsible for their own weapons.

Of course, if somebody is going to murder someone, the last thing they will be worried about is the fine for carrying a gun. But if there's a very steep fine and jail time for even being found to be carrying an illegal gun, then maybe that gun gets left at home and a violent situation later doesn't end up becoming deadly. Or maybe they don't even have that gun because whoever they borrowed it from is too afraid of the penalties that they could face if the person they lend it to gets caught with it.

#93 Dubey

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 07:49 AM

View PostScrim, on 07 February 2017 - 11:52 PM, said:


You're trying to sell the idea that people who want to ban guns have anything in mind other than banning them all.

I DO think gun ownership unfortunately has become a completely partisan issue, but that doesn't mean every pro gun-control person just wants to completely get rid of guns because DOWN WITH THE REPUBLICANS.

I still think the general idea behind Gun control is a safer society. But you are right, it probably isn't possible. Just pretty funny that you are placing the blame on the gun control side, as though the Pro-gun people have been completely reasonable throughout all of this and they are completely justified in fighting every single incremental change.



#94 Balloon guy

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 11:48 AM

80 million registered gun owners with over 300 million guns.
Vs
11,000 shooting deaths with most of them gang/criminal related.

I'd say gun owners are the most responsible people in the country.


When I bought a pistol last years I did background check, paid fee to take a test about gun safety and laws, had to physically demonstrate that I could handle gun, and am responsible if anyone used my registered gun unless I report it stolen before crime happens. I can't carry it in my car unless ammo and gun are separate and gun is in trunk.

I can't sell it private party, I'm required by law to take it to a licensed gun dealer to handle any sale.

My home is protected by a large dog, my gun is my back up.

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#95 Scrim

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 12:07 PM

View PostFenxis, on 08 February 2017 - 06:53 AM, said:

In some ways, given the 'gun culture' in the United States I wonder if we are fighting over the symptom and not the cause. Of big concern is how 'private' gun shows bypass the need for police checks, people on the no-fly list aren't excluded from buying guns, the mentally incompetent can buy again, etc.

But some ideas culturewise:

- have more responsibility about gun ownership -- ie: if a kid finds a loaded gun in your night-side table and blows away a sibling should you be responsible for manslaughter.
- disaffection from not fulfilling the American Dream: the attitude that if you aren't a millionaire then it's because you just didn't try hard enough -> workplace shoot-ups.

All of this is reasonable. Painfuilly reasonable.
The problem is, its not hard to anticipate how the continuum of gun regulations will flow when the predicate for 'calls for common sense controls' is whenever there's a horrible tragedy. There will always be horrible tragedies in a country with 300,000,000 unregulated firearms. They're an existential part of our reality, meaning that people who have an aversion to firearms will always be calling for another incremental step. Bob just admitted that.

Here's an interesting experiment.

The next time you're in a group of people who support 'common sense gun controls' on the basis of some very specific policy that they'd like to see passed, ask that same group of people at what point they'd consider that gun regulations had gone too far and they would then switch to being gun rights advocates. Not to say such people don't exist. You'll find them from time to time but note how most everyone who predicates their position on gun control on the basis of a specific policy being a 'reasonable step' has essentially no articulable barrier as to when a gun control policy goes 'too far'.

Their plausible pretext is 'a reasonable step' but their core motivation is they hate all guns.
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#96 Scrim

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 12:11 PM

View PostBalloon guy, on 08 February 2017 - 11:48 AM, said:

I can't sell it private party, I'm required by law to take it to a licensed gun dealer to handle any sale.


That's in your state.
In other states, private sales without background checks are completely standard and they can take on a rather horrifying complexion.

To put it another way, Joe finally makes his last layaway payment on his trusty new AR15. Picks it up, passes a background check, walks out of the gun shop with his new gun. On the way home, his truck sputters and stalls. ****. He has $160 in bank... and payday isn't for another two weeks.

While Joe waits for the tow truck, he posts a for sale ad on Facebook.

"WTS- Brand new unfired AR15. (features) tactical (features) tactical (features) with a special tactical (features).
Truck broke, need $(some price) cash"

An hour later, he can sell that AR15 he just bought in a parking lot of a Taco Bell to a guy with a neck tattoo for cash and there is no background check required.

This is the case in most states.
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#97 Dubey

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 12:22 PM

For what it's worth. The only argument FOR widespread gun ownership that actually holds any water in my opinion is a variation on what the second amendment was actually written for. So society has the ability to uprise against an oppressive authoritarian government. Not that I believe this has ever been necessary in all of modern US history.

If I could click a button and erase guns from human existence with no chance that they are invented again, it's a complete no brainer. The only reasons guns are even necessary in any scenario is because guns exist.

#98 Scrim

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 12:36 PM

View PostDubey, on 08 February 2017 - 12:22 PM, said:

If I could click a button and erase guns from human existence with no chance that they are invented again, it's a complete no brainer. The only reasons guns are even necessary in any scenario is because guns exist.

Agreed.
Now, what does gun ownership mean to a law abiding citizen who lives down here in reality , in a society that has 300,000,000 firearms like the United States?

Countries with no guns or minorities derived from the 3rd World are much better off than the United States in both regards, but our reality is different.
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#99 Balloon guy

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 06:11 PM

Human history shows one thing, we like killing each other.
For land, for women, for money, for pride, for nationalism, for communism, for democracy, for the right to be free.

Guns are a tool, the root of the problem is the sin nature of man.

If you wished away all guns today, people would reinvent them.

For good reasons and for bad.
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#100 FCP Bob

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Posted 09 February 2017 - 01:18 AM

if these idiots weren't White I wonder how many times the police would have shot them

Gun advocates arrested carrying rifle into Dearborn police station
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