Jump to content


The Trump Cabinet


  • Please log in to reply
206 replies to this topic

#161 Dubey

Dubey

    Poker Forum God

  • Members
  • 10,939 posts
  • Location:Lethbridge, Alberta

Posted 13 February 2017 - 08:22 PM

View PostSpademan, on 13 February 2017 - 08:07 PM, said:





Don't know what this means.

Don't mind SA, he's attempting to transition out of his regular harmless/amusing/quasi-troll persona by occasionally dabbling in actual serious conversations and it is an awkward stage.

#162 SuitedAces21

SuitedAces21

    once and future king

  • Members
  • 24,871 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 13 February 2017 - 08:57 PM

not enough people around to avoid the politics threads anymore. give me time. by 2020 i'll be good to go.
Spoiler

#163 SuitedAces21

SuitedAces21

    once and future king

  • Members
  • 24,871 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 13 February 2017 - 08:59 PM

but really i meant it was over the top to say that if DJT had just put his inheritance in a mutual fund he'd be richer today than he is. he may have cheated and tax evaded his way through life, but he has made money. not as much as he claims, but a lot.
Spoiler

#164 Spademan

Spademan

    Poker Forum God

  • Members
  • 4,977 posts
  • Location:NC

Posted 13 February 2017 - 09:20 PM

View PostSuitedAces21, on 13 February 2017 - 08:59 PM, said:

but really i meant it was over the top to say that if DJT had just put his inheritance in a mutual fund

No it isn't.

But, without tax returns (which he won't show, for obvious reasons - he claims to be a billionaire, L O L), there is no way to say for sure. But, from all of the information I've seen, it's more likely than not he'd have more actual wealth had he not "done business the best and greatest than anyone has done business just tremendous because of his tremendous brain".

But sure, believe that the one thing that Trump is honest about is how much money he has.

Sure.
'"Luck" is people taking the laws of probability personally; Luck is the excitement of bad math.'

#165 Essay21

Essay21

    forum legend

  • Members
  • 9,412 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 14 February 2017 - 06:17 AM

I specifically said he doesn't have as much money as he claims.

#166 mrfritz

mrfritz

    Poker Forum Veteran

  • Members
  • 2,557 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Vitamin Barn

Posted 14 February 2017 - 07:37 AM

I believe him
This is my first rodeo

#167 Dubey

Dubey

    Poker Forum God

  • Members
  • 10,939 posts
  • Location:Lethbridge, Alberta

Posted 14 February 2017 - 08:04 AM

I doubt he's a billionaire. He certainly has a lot of assets, but I suspect he has a shit ton of debt that keeps his net worth pretty low. I don't think any of his prior business accomplishments make him suitable to be the POTUS whatsoever. However, say what you will about him, he has managed to leverage himself into one of the most recognizable names/brands on the planet, even before his presidential run. I think calling him a failed businessman is probably unfair.

#168 Spademan

Spademan

    Poker Forum God

  • Members
  • 4,977 posts
  • Location:NC

Posted 14 February 2017 - 08:16 AM

View PostDubey, on 14 February 2017 - 08:04 AM, said:

I think calling him a failed businessman is probably unfair.

As late as early nineties he was claiming he was worth billions, but when his bankers issued a report in hears related to casino matters he was in the red 300 million. He's claimed he has "bounced back" since then, but in nearly every instance that information is presented in hearings the figures concerning the worth of one thing or another is a fraction of what he had previously claimed. We're talking a difference of a 50 million dollar claim of worth that turns out to be 1 million.

I am not being hyperbolic when I say it is probable that he would have more wealth had he just put the money he was given by his father than he does having tried to do business with it. That would be an utter failure. And being recognizable != sound or successful money management and investments.

Of course, even if that is the case, he may at last succeed at turning a superior profit now that he can abuse his power as president.
'"Luck" is people taking the laws of probability personally; Luck is the excitement of bad math.'

#169 Dubey

Dubey

    Poker Forum God

  • Members
  • 10,939 posts
  • Location:Lethbridge, Alberta

Posted 14 February 2017 - 10:45 AM

View PostSpademan, on 14 February 2017 - 08:16 AM, said:



As late as early nineties he was claiming he was worth billions, but when his bankers issued a report in hears related to casino matters he was in the red 300 million. He's claimed he has "bounced back" since then, but in nearly every instance that information is presented in hearings the figures concerning the worth of one thing or another is a fraction of what he had previously claimed. We're talking a difference of a 50 million dollar claim of worth that turns out to be 1 million.

I am not being hyperbolic when I say it is probable that he would have more wealth had he just put the money he was given by his father than he does having tried to do business with it. That would be an utter failure. And being recognizable != sound or successful money management and investments.

Of course, even if that is the case, he may at last succeed at turning a superior profit now that he can abuse his power as president.

I don't really disagree with anything here. But even if his current net worth was $0, he still lives in complete luxury, had his own very popular TV show, and somehow leveraged his position into being President of the USA. By almost any measure, he has been very successful in his life. I don't, however, for one second buy that any of this somehow makes him fit to be president.

#170 Scrim

Scrim

    Poker Forum Groupie

  • Members
  • 555 posts

Posted 14 February 2017 - 10:49 AM

View PostSpademan, on 14 February 2017 - 08:16 AM, said:

As late as early nineties he was claiming he was worth billions, but when his bankers issued a report in hears related to casino matters he was in the red 300 million. He's claimed he has "bounced back" since then, but in nearly every instance that information is presented in hearings the figures concerning the worth of one thing or another is a fraction of what he had previously claimed.


Him personally or some subsidiary company?

He's majorly guarded about his personal net worth. I believe he's exaggerating and probably overvaluing the "Trump Brand" as some (y)-billion factor but most of the information that's public about debt or wealth relates to bk matters involving sub companies.
“Merging feminist postcolonial science studies and feminist political ecology, the feminist glaciology framework generates robust analysis of gender, power, and epistemologies in dynamic social-ecological systems, thereby leading to more just and equitable science and human-ice interactions,”

#171 Spademan

Spademan

    Poker Forum God

  • Members
  • 4,977 posts
  • Location:NC

Posted 14 February 2017 - 11:05 AM

View PostDubey, on 14 February 2017 - 10:45 AM, said:

I don't really disagree with anything here. But even if his current net worth was $0, he still lives in complete luxury, had his own very popular TV show, and somehow leveraged his position into being President of the USA. By almost any measure, he has been very successful in his life. I don't, however, for one second buy that any of this somehow makes him fit to be president.

Three things.

1. He lives in complete luxury - as would anyone who was given millions and millions and millions of dollars by their daddy and didn't somehow blow it all on coke and whores. Being bequeathed a shit-ton of money does not make you "successful".

2. You'll note I was speaking specifically about him being a "good business man". I'll reiterate, there is zero evidence he's made more money than he would have if he just put the money he was given away. Having the same or less than the amount of money you were given as you would have had if you had done nothing with it does not make a "good business man".

3. Yes, he's been very successful at getting famous and using his fame to ascend to the presidency by tapping into the most vile segments of our society. I haven't disputed that at all. Desperate housewives and the Jersey Shore people are famous too.

Great?

View PostScrim, on 14 February 2017 - 10:49 AM, said:

Him personally or some subsidiary company?

I'm not sure. You'll notice I've been using qualifiers like "probable" and "likely" and whatnot, and that's because it's been a long time since I was looking into all this, so I don't remember a lot of the specifics at all.
'"Luck" is people taking the laws of probability personally; Luck is the excitement of bad math.'

#172 brvheart

brvheart

    I'm the best.

  • Members
  • 25,351 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Toyko, Japan
  • Interests:Playing in nuclear fallout.
  • Favorite Poker Game:I play 100/200 live with my best friend Jason.

Posted 14 February 2017 - 01:52 PM

View PostSpademan, on 13 February 2017 - 08:07 PM, said:

Oh, he's a billionaire, is he? Because he says he is?

You need to look into it a bit more, there's a lot of information out there.

I think maybe you'll have to provide me with these super secret sources that you have.

Because democrat Bloomberg, who is parading as an independent says he's worth 3.0.

and Forbes had a team of investigators going through public records and came up with 3.7.

View PostiZuma, on 20 August 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

napa I was jesus christing suited, you guys just slipped in before me.

View PostEssay21, on 25 February 2013 - 08:32 PM, said:

.

#173 scuudagouch

scuudagouch

    Poker Forum Nut

  • Members
  • 290 posts
  • Favorite Poker Game:Limit Holdem

Posted 15 February 2017 - 03:41 AM

spade knows much better than forbes....cause he said so and looked into a while back.
"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him had better take a closer look at the American Indian"

Henry Ford

#174 Fenxis

Fenxis

    Poker Forum Veteran

  • Members
  • 4,935 posts

Posted 15 February 2017 - 05:38 PM

View Postbrvheart, on 14 February 2017 - 01:52 PM, said:


But wait... I thought he was worth more than $10B!

http://thehill.com/b...-billion-in-new
"@sergetoronto Bang-up analysis there" -- James Mirtle

#175 brvheart

brvheart

    I'm the best.

  • Members
  • 25,351 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Toyko, Japan
  • Interests:Playing in nuclear fallout.
  • Favorite Poker Game:I play 100/200 live with my best friend Jason.

Posted 16 February 2017 - 12:35 PM

I have never once been on record as saying that I trust anything that Trump says. I'm using independent investigators to come to the conclusion that Trump is at bare minimum a billionaire, and by no valid metric a "failed businessman".


Now if you want to throw in liberal metrics created by people with 0 days running a business, no basic conception of economics, and no understanding of executive decision making, then one could come up with a few invalid ways to label him as such; like the often paraded "4 out of 500 businesses have gone bankrupt" line.

View PostiZuma, on 20 August 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

napa I was jesus christing suited, you guys just slipped in before me.

View PostEssay21, on 25 February 2013 - 08:32 PM, said:

.

#176 FCP Bob

FCP Bob

    Limit Holdem Dinosaur

  • Root Admin
  • 26,973 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Scarberia

Posted 16 February 2017 - 12:58 PM

View Postbrvheart, on 16 February 2017 - 12:35 PM, said:

I have never once been on record as saying that I trust anything that Trump says. I'm using independent investigators to come to the conclusion that Trump is at bare minimum a billionaire, and by no valid metric a "failed businessman".


Now if you want to throw in liberal metrics created by people with 0 days running a business, no basic conception of economics, and no understanding of executive decision making, then one could come up with a few invalid ways to label him as such; like the often paraded "4 out of 500 businesses have gone bankrupt" line.

This is a pretty fair assessment of the whole would he have been better off just putting his money in index funds.

http://www.politifac...nt-trumps-fath/

There is no question that he controls billions in assets. In many cases there aren't public records of a lot of his businesses to know how much the debt is that is owed on those assets.

Many of the properties that he has in New York have gone up a lot in value along with all New York real estate and there is no question that they are worth a lot more than when he purchased them or the leases to those properties. As long as he hasn't borrowed against those increases his net worth has increased a lot.

The only public company he ever ran was the casino company where it went bankrupt and the investors lost their money while Trump took out millions and millions for himself. His casinos were the worst performing in Atlantic City and they didn't go under just because of the changes to the AC market. Anybody who spent time in one of his casinos, and I did since The Taj had the big poker room at the time, would probably not be surprised that they were failing. The customer experience left a lot to be desired compared to the competition.

Publications like Forbes have a lot of trouble accurately valuing the net worth of people who mostly have private businesses so take their estimates as educated guesses. For example they didn't have Isai Scheinberg who owned Poker Stars listed among billionaires until he sold the company even when he was worth many billions.

Here are my thoughts. Trump is very very wealthy by all measures. He isn't nearly as wealthy as he says he is though and he obviously has little understanding about how the economy works. To be fair though many very very successful business people have no idea about macroeconomics. It's one of the great fallacies of thought that the general public has that business success equals economics understanding.
Bob

info@fullcontactpoker.com

#177 brvheart

brvheart

    I'm the best.

  • Members
  • 25,351 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Toyko, Japan
  • Interests:Playing in nuclear fallout.
  • Favorite Poker Game:I play 100/200 live with my best friend Jason.

Posted 16 February 2017 - 01:08 PM

I don't trust anything Politfact says about anything because they have proven themselves to be so biased, but that article definitely backed up what I've been saying.

View PostiZuma, on 20 August 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

napa I was jesus christing suited, you guys just slipped in before me.

View PostEssay21, on 25 February 2013 - 08:32 PM, said:

.

#178 Balloon guy

Balloon guy

    Deplorable Lives Matter

  • Members
  • 24,409 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:So Cal
  • Interests:Cigars, Flying, Golf, Bible
  • Favorite Poker Game:Golf

Posted 16 February 2017 - 08:36 PM

View PostFCP Bob, on 16 February 2017 - 12:58 PM, said:


Here are my thoughts. Trump is very very wealthy by all measures. He isn't nearly as wealthy as he says he is though and he obviously has little understanding about how the economy works. To be fair though many very very successful business people have no idea about macroeconomics. It's one of the great fallacies of thought that the general public has that business success equals economics understanding.

Okay, compare the insight of a successful businessman to a lawyer turned politician then.

I'll go with the businessman if for no other reason than he has a grasp of concepts that allow him to learn at a faster rate than a guy who has never met a payroll deadline.

Expecting anyone who runs for an office to be competent on macroeconomics to go it alone is a foolish expectation.

And given that two different PHD professors who run entire departments at prestigious universities will tell you two opposite methods to 'fix' the economy means its not a hard science.
I use my cigar smoke as idiot repellent

Most bad government has come out of too much government. Thomas Jefferson

#179 Fenxis

Fenxis

    Poker Forum Veteran

  • Members
  • 4,935 posts

Posted 18 February 2017 - 12:38 PM

View PostBalloon guy, on 16 February 2017 - 08:36 PM, said:

Okay, compare the insight of a successful businessman to a lawyer turned politician then...

If said lawyer was just doing real-estate transactions or other copy-and-paste grunt work sure, but if he was a professor, editor of the Law Review, etc, etc.

Given that it's a lot harder for governments to cut-and-run on failed programs than private industry (through discontinuing products or bankruptcy) I want someone to make informed and thought out decisions.

Whereas said businessman makes snap decisions based on instincts -- extremely powerful when you are in your comfort zone and/or you are willing to be a sponge and want to soak up as much information as possible. Unfortunately for the current CiC he is neither in his comfort zone, seems to lack the attention span to really delve into the nuances of situations, and therefore is at the mercy of people around him.
"@sergetoronto Bang-up analysis there" -- James Mirtle

#180 scuudagouch

scuudagouch

    Poker Forum Nut

  • Members
  • 290 posts
  • Favorite Poker Game:Limit Holdem

Posted 20 February 2017 - 03:29 AM

a law professor and the editor of a law review, these are the people you want running the government?
"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him had better take a closer look at the American Indian"

Henry Ford




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users