Jump to content


Us Politics For Betting (Not Talking About Politics)


  • Please log in to reply
3276 replies to this topic

#81 FCP Bob

FCP Bob

    Limit Holdem Dinosaur

  • Root Admin
  • 26,983 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Scarberia

Posted 10 November 2015 - 07:12 AM

View PostFCP Bob, on 10 November 2015 - 07:05 AM, said:

The whole issue is stupid.

Starbucks has a Christmas coffee blend in their stores. Their cups never said Merry Christmas before but had things like tree ornaments and snowmen on them. This year they went with plain red cups which it turns out wasn't a smart move on their part.

Anybody who is offended by anybody having overt Christmas themes or is offended by there being none is an idiot.

That being said people have every right to shop where they want.

If somebody feels like they want to eat at Chick-fil-A because the owner's have strong faith that they agree with that's great, just like somebody making the opposite decision. We have to always remember that our rights to make our own decisions don't mean we have the right to silence others or stop them from their own free will.
Bob

info@fullcontactpoker.com

#82 mrdannyg

mrdannyg

    Cheese Salesman

  • Members
  • 20,267 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 10 November 2015 - 07:21 AM

My wife had a good line on the whole thing - saying Merry Christmas to a stranger because you are celebrating Christmas is kind of like wishing them Happy Birthday because it is your birthday. I mean, I get there is a difference, but you really have no idea how that person feels about Christmas when you wish it, so who are you wishing it to?

The main thing that annoys me about the whole argument is that people read something like I just wrote and complain that I'm "offended" by them saying Merry Christmas, or that they "can't" say it. You can go ahead and say it! But hey, most people like to say something that is meaningful to others, not just themselves (especially if they are a company or government), so if you are trying to be nice, maybe don't require me to celebrate your religious holiday to have your greeting apply to me.
Long signatures are really annoying.

#83 digitalmonkey

digitalmonkey

    Unenjoyable Annoying Retard

  • Members
  • 37,798 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sudbury
  • Interests:sports, music, movies, photography
  • Favorite Poker Game:Hi/Lo Chicago

Posted 10 November 2015 - 07:44 AM

People who are easily offended offend me.
Please use the comments to demonstrate your own ignorance, unfamiliarity with empirical data and lack of respect for scientific knowledge. Be sure to create straw men and argue against things I have neither said nor implied. If you could repeat previously discredited memes or steer the conversation into irrelevant, off topic discussions, it would be appreciated. Lastly, kindly forgo all civility in your discourse . . . you are, after all, anonymous.

#84 iBeaver

iBeaver

    Poker Forum Veteran

  • Members
  • 2,605 posts

Posted 10 November 2015 - 07:56 AM

View Postmrdannyg, on 10 November 2015 - 07:21 AM, said:

My wife had a good line on the whole thing - saying Merry Christmas to a stranger because you are celebrating Christmas is kind of like wishing them Happy Birthday because it is your birthday. I mean, I get there is a difference, but you really have no idea how that person feels about Christmas when you wish it, so who are you wishing it to?

The main thing that annoys me about the whole argument is that people read something like I just wrote and complain that I'm "offended" by them saying Merry Christmas, or that they "can't" say it. You can go ahead and say it! But hey, most people like to say something that is meaningful to others, not just themselves (especially if they are a company or government), so if you are trying to be nice, maybe don't require me to celebrate your religious holiday to have your greeting apply to me.

It says you're not annoyed then at the end you show annoyance. I'm confused. I go back to what I posted, you can wish me whatever you wish, I'm just grateful you were being a nice person. I don't get offended/annoyed when my best friend wishes me happy Hannakuh. He's also not pushing his beliefs on me by saying it just like me, the non-religious dude, not pushing Christian ideals on him or anyone else by saying Merry Xmas.

#85 mrdannyg

mrdannyg

    Cheese Salesman

  • Members
  • 20,267 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 10 November 2015 - 08:13 AM

View PostiBeaver, on 10 November 2015 - 07:56 AM, said:

It says you're not annoyed then at the end you show annoyance. I'm confused. I go back to what I posted, you can wish me whatever you wish, I'm just grateful you were being a nice person. I don't get offended/annoyed when my best friend wishes me happy Hannakuh. He's also not pushing his beliefs on me by saying it just like me, the non-religious dude, not pushing Christian ideals on him or anyone else by saying Merry Xmas.

I'm neither annoyed nor offended. I know my last line seems annoyed, but it isn't - it is genuine advice! If they are trying to be nice, they should actually try, which would mean giving a greeting that has a better chance of actually applying to that person. You don't get annoyed when your friend wishes you a Happy Hanukkah, but if it were a stranger, would you consider it a "nice" thing? Or would you think it was a bit weird for them to hope you have a good celebration of a holiday that you don't give an F about.

In general, the only thing that vaguely annoys me is when people complain about not being able to say Merry Christmas...in mid-November! If it is December 24 and you're wearing a Santa hat and you wish me a Merry Christmas, I think of that as a nice thing, because you're probably exuberant and excited about the holiday, and it's basically Christmas then. Hell, I will wish strangers a Merry Christmas if it's right around the day and/or our interaction has something to do with it!

Sidenote - I often wear a Santa-type hat in the winter. If I am wearing that hat, I absolutely welcome anyone to wish me a Merry Christmas, and will probably say it back.
Long signatures are really annoying.

#86 digitalmonkey

digitalmonkey

    Unenjoyable Annoying Retard

  • Members
  • 37,798 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sudbury
  • Interests:sports, music, movies, photography
  • Favorite Poker Game:Hi/Lo Chicago

Posted 10 November 2015 - 08:22 AM

Please fill out this highly detailed form so I can know how to properly greet you and wish you well.
Please use the comments to demonstrate your own ignorance, unfamiliarity with empirical data and lack of respect for scientific knowledge. Be sure to create straw men and argue against things I have neither said nor implied. If you could repeat previously discredited memes or steer the conversation into irrelevant, off topic discussions, it would be appreciated. Lastly, kindly forgo all civility in your discourse . . . you are, after all, anonymous.

#87 serge

serge

    Leafs nation Grand Poobah

  • Members
  • 48,802 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Toronto

Posted 10 November 2015 - 09:17 AM

I mean I'm not mad at Starbucks. However if I'm told I shouldn't say merry Xmas then I'm upset.


Owner of the Mustangs, 2014-2015 AHL Eastern Division Champs

Lets make America Great Again. Trump 2016

#88 digitalmonkey

digitalmonkey

    Unenjoyable Annoying Retard

  • Members
  • 37,798 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sudbury
  • Interests:sports, music, movies, photography
  • Favorite Poker Game:Hi/Lo Chicago

Posted 10 November 2015 - 09:43 AM

What's Xmas? Is that the X-men version of Christmas? You know, that would offend some people.
Please use the comments to demonstrate your own ignorance, unfamiliarity with empirical data and lack of respect for scientific knowledge. Be sure to create straw men and argue against things I have neither said nor implied. If you could repeat previously discredited memes or steer the conversation into irrelevant, off topic discussions, it would be appreciated. Lastly, kindly forgo all civility in your discourse . . . you are, after all, anonymous.

#89 iBeaver

iBeaver

    Poker Forum Veteran

  • Members
  • 2,605 posts

Posted 10 November 2015 - 11:28 AM

I doubt I'd be anything but appreciative if some stranger wished me any specific or vague holiday wish. I've thought about it and I can't come up with a reason why it would annoy me. I'd be to surprised by an act of kindness to be annoyed I guess.

#90 mrdannyg

mrdannyg

    Cheese Salesman

  • Members
  • 20,267 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 10 November 2015 - 12:03 PM

View Postdigitalmonkey, on 10 November 2015 - 08:22 AM, said:

Please fill out this highly detailed form so I can know how to properly greet you and wish you well.

"Happy Holidays". There you go. Complicated.

View PostiBeaver, on 10 November 2015 - 11:28 AM, said:

I doubt I'd be anything but appreciative if some stranger wished me any specific or vague holiday wish. I've thought about it and I can't come up with a reason why it would annoy me. I'd be to surprised by an act of kindness to be annoyed I guess.

If a stranger wishes you a Happy New Year (or a Happy Rosh Hashanah) next August, would you think they were being nice, or being weird, or both?
Long signatures are really annoying.

#91 serge

serge

    Leafs nation Grand Poobah

  • Members
  • 48,802 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Toronto

Posted 10 November 2015 - 12:05 PM

View Postmrdannyg, on 10 November 2015 - 12:03 PM, said:

"Happy Holidays". There you go. Complicated.



If a stranger wishes you a Happy New Year (or a Happy Rosh Hashanah) next August, would you think they were being nice, or being weird, or both?

its totally not the same thing at all..
Owner of the Mustangs, 2014-2015 AHL Eastern Division Champs

Lets make America Great Again. Trump 2016

#92 digitalmonkey

digitalmonkey

    Unenjoyable Annoying Retard

  • Members
  • 37,798 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sudbury
  • Interests:sports, music, movies, photography
  • Favorite Poker Game:Hi/Lo Chicago

Posted 10 November 2015 - 12:07 PM

View Postmrdannyg, on 10 November 2015 - 12:03 PM, said:



"Happy Holidays". There you go. Complicated.



If a stranger wishes you a Happy New Year (or a Happy Rosh Hashanah) next August, would you think they were being nice, or being weird, or both?

What if it's not holidays for someone? Maybe they're neither on vacation nor celebrating Christmas. They could be offended.
Please use the comments to demonstrate your own ignorance, unfamiliarity with empirical data and lack of respect for scientific knowledge. Be sure to create straw men and argue against things I have neither said nor implied. If you could repeat previously discredited memes or steer the conversation into irrelevant, off topic discussions, it would be appreciated. Lastly, kindly forgo all civility in your discourse . . . you are, after all, anonymous.

#93 serge

serge

    Leafs nation Grand Poobah

  • Members
  • 48,802 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Toronto

Posted 10 November 2015 - 12:11 PM

simple google search got me to find 90% of Americans celebrate Christmas....The number is similar in Canada

While for most Christmas is a religious holiday, other religions also observe the day..

If anyone is offended by me celebrating, honouring, or telling them Merry Christmas, then thats just wrong...
Owner of the Mustangs, 2014-2015 AHL Eastern Division Champs

Lets make America Great Again. Trump 2016

#94 mrdannyg

mrdannyg

    Cheese Salesman

  • Members
  • 20,267 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 10 November 2015 - 12:15 PM

View Postserge, on 10 November 2015 - 12:05 PM, said:

its totally not the same thing at all..

Why not?

View Postdigitalmonkey, on 10 November 2015 - 12:07 PM, said:

What if it's not holidays for someone? Maybe they're neither on vacation nor celebrating Christmas. They could be offended.

You're implying that the alternative is being offended, as opposed to just discluded, which is what I have said.

You're also missing that I didn't say you had to include everybody, but if someone was trying to be nice, they would probably try to include as many people as possible. By changing the word from "Merry" (Christmas-specific) to "Happy" and including any holidays (religious or otherwise), you include pretty much everyone, especially if you're generally only saying it from mid-December on, as opposed to the conservative-minded who have the same argument with themselves about how they're "not allowed" to say it every year on November 1.

If you live in a mid-Western county that is 97% Christian, then go ahead and say Merry Christmas to whoever the hell you want. If you live in Canada and Merry Christmas only applies to 60% of the population (I have no idea the actual number), most nice people I know would prefer to take that number up to 97%.
Long signatures are really annoying.

#95 FCP Bob

FCP Bob

    Limit Holdem Dinosaur

  • Root Admin
  • 26,983 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Scarberia

Posted 10 November 2015 - 12:16 PM

In Canada Christmas is now a secular holiday far more than a religious one. It is about Santa Claus and trees and not about baby Jesus to the average Canadian.

If I say Merry Christmas to you it's the same as me saying a week later Happy New Year. And it is the secular Christmas Holiday to me so I am never ever saying Happy Holidays to anybody. You either get Merry Christmas or nothing.
Bob

info@fullcontactpoker.com

#96 mrdannyg

mrdannyg

    Cheese Salesman

  • Members
  • 20,267 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 10 November 2015 - 12:19 PM

View Postserge, on 10 November 2015 - 12:11 PM, said:

simple google search got me to find 90% of Americans celebrate Christmas....The number is similar in Canada

While for most Christmas is a religious holiday, other religions also observe the day..

If anyone is offended by me celebrating, honouring, or telling them Merry Christmas, then thats just wrong...

No one is offended by that. And no other religions observe the day in any form (though I'm sure there are plenty of people, like my family, who identify as non-religious but who still put up a Christmas tree and have presents, though that is a bit different than people of other religions 'observing' the day, but I don't think that's what you meant anyway!)
Long signatures are really annoying.

#97 FCP Bob

FCP Bob

    Limit Holdem Dinosaur

  • Root Admin
  • 26,983 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Scarberia

Posted 10 November 2015 - 12:20 PM

View PostFCP Bob, on 10 November 2015 - 12:16 PM, said:

In Canada Christmas is now a secular holiday far more than a religious one. It is about Santa Claus and trees and not about baby Jesus to the average Canadian.

If I say Merry Christmas to you it's the same as me saying a week later Happy New Year. And it is the secular Christmas Holiday to me so I am never ever saying Happy Holidays to anybody. You either get Merry Christmas or nothing.

and every non-Christian immigrant that I know ( and that is a lot of non-White, non-Christian people I know ) will usually say Merry Christmas to me before I get the chance to say it to them. Never once have I heard somebody of that demographic say Happy Holidays unless they're working in a store or restaurant and that's the script that they've been told to use.
Bob

info@fullcontactpoker.com

#98 serge

serge

    Leafs nation Grand Poobah

  • Members
  • 48,802 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Toronto

Posted 10 November 2015 - 12:34 PM

Here is the problem. If Danny isn't offended and every non-Christian I know isn't offended, why are businesses getting rid of saying merry Xmas?

My religion, which is Christian Orthodox observes Christmas on Jan 6. I have never told anyone who wished me merry Christmas on Dec 25th not to wish me merry Christmas.

I have lived in a country that is 95 percent Muslim. We observed and celebrated Muslim holidays because our friends and colleagues did. We never were offended by Muslim tradition.
Owner of the Mustangs, 2014-2015 AHL Eastern Division Champs

Lets make America Great Again. Trump 2016

#99 mrdannyg

mrdannyg

    Cheese Salesman

  • Members
  • 20,267 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 10 November 2015 - 12:34 PM

View PostFCP Bob, on 10 November 2015 - 12:16 PM, said:

In Canada Christmas is now a secular holiday far more than a religious one. It is about Santa Claus and trees and not about baby Jesus to the average Canadian.

If I say Merry Christmas to you it's the same as me saying a week later Happy New Year. And it is the secular Christmas Holiday to me so I am never ever saying Happy Holidays to anybody. You either get Merry Christmas or nothing.

I have no problem with this, as long as we are in the general vicinity of Christmas. November 16th is not that. That's just me, and not an ethical argument of course.

And while your position is perfectly reasonable, you have to accept that to people who don't celebrate Christmas, and who may or may not be subject to other issues because of religion, hearing "Merry Christmas" might not sound as nice as you intend it to. To elaborate...

Christianity is a dominating force in our society, just like being male or being white. And just like those traits, even if our laws and most people's ethical sensibilities no longer make judgments on those basis, we can all look around us and see that everyone is not treated equally. Christmas is a secular holiday of course, just like New Years or Thanksgiving, but to many people it is still a religious holiday, and of course, it was founded on that basis. Some of those people don't mean "Merry Christmas" as nicely as serge or bob or anyone else, and to the people who don't celebrate Christmas, serge and bob look the same as those mean people (whereas saying "Happy Holidays" probably looks to those people as someone who is explicitly rejecting those mean people). That doesn't make it ethically right or wrong to say Merry Christmas...you could easily argue that it makes it more important for the nice serge and bobs (and dales) to say it! But it's worth keeping in mind.
Long signatures are really annoying.

#100 mrdannyg

mrdannyg

    Cheese Salesman

  • Members
  • 20,267 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 10 November 2015 - 12:41 PM

View Postserge, on 10 November 2015 - 12:34 PM, said:

Here is the problem. If Danny isn't offended and every non-Christian I know isn't offended, why are businesses getting rid of saying merry Xmas?

My religion, which is Christian Orthodox observes Christmas on Jan 6. I have never told anyone who wished me merry Christmas on Dec 25th not to wish me merry Christmas.

I have lived in a country that is 95 percent Muslim. We observed and celebrated Muslim holidays because our friends and colleagues did. We never were offended by Muslim tradition.

I guess I just don't understand why saying "Merry Christmas" is better than saying "Happy Holidays." It's the exact same sentiment, but some people feel more included by the latter. So why are people so prickly about sticking to the former? Stores don't do it because they don't want to offend someone, they do it because they don't want to disclude anyone.

I work for a huge company. My office has a Christmas party, not a holiday party. That's fine! I go every year, and I often wear a Santa hat. It makes sense to have a party at that time of the year for many non-religious reasons, so great. We have fundraisers through the year to raise money so the party is free, extra drinks are free, and extra money is donated to many excellent secular causes.

My old office had a Christmas party too, but there were as many pictures of Jesus as there were of Santa, the donated money went to a Church-sponsored charity, and there was a Christian prayer before the meal. I didn't go to that one, and I didn't participate in the fundraising - it was a company-sponsored event that excluded me, which is something that a government office shouldn't do, and that if a private company chooses to do, they choose to do so knowing that some people might be excluded and may or may not choose to work at an office that excludes them in this way.
Long signatures are really annoying.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users