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Obama Declares War On Syria


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#41 JustDoIt

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 06:36 PM

View PostAmScray, on 10 September 2013 - 05:30 PM, said:

My favorite part is how you said this, then...



... you said this and with what I presume is a totally straight face, don't see how the two are essentially the same thing.

That's the problem with idealists.
They are totally, totally incompotent in the face of a problem that demands a realistic solution Their minds aren't wired to concieve of rational- even 'more likely' - scenarios outside their own idealogical realm. It eventually arrives at the point where you wonder how they can function in life being so totally detached from reality, but I guess they can. It's also a totally amusing tendancy of authoritarian leftism to propose murderous actions when it's in service to some stupid ideal. "Save the baby seal, shoot the seal hunter" types.

Sorry, though. While I may have sociopathic tendancies and I think you know by now you won't get any shuickin' and jivin' out of me by squealing 'racist', my proposal results in LESS bodies than yours (excluding the Spiderman scenario, but I'm pretty sure you realized how dumb that was before you even hit 'post'. I can only assume it was purely rhetorical and not an actual suggestion.) and while I don't ****ing care if we fly sortie's of AC130 gunships to strafe the refugee camps, I can still acknowledge that my own situational-sociopathy in regards to people outside my own culture isn't nessacarily the best way to manage global policy. If you'll go back and read the post, you'll notice that I've been a champion of discretion.

I think your ideals on "drones" are just so visceral that you don't even understand what they are. They've just become another ringing bell to your pavlovian ideal system. They perform some tasks that were once left to carpet bombing.

LOL, sorry guys I am not biting. TimWakefield and you are pranking us right?
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#42 timwakefield

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 07:22 PM

I'm pretty sure nobody is pranking anybody. We're all just that dumb. Please explain it to us.

I'm serious, please go ahead and explain what you think the situation is and why you think my post (and anybody else's other than the clearly insane silentsnow) was so wildly off the mark as to appear parodic.
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#43 AmScray

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 12:44 PM

IMO, Kerry's comment was disposable and rhetorical.
The fact that they basically snap-called a comically bullshit proposal demonstrates that they know we are absolutely serious and there will be no chest puffing about how unafraid they are (because a puffed chest just makes a bigger target for the drones)

Syria is critical to Russia for many different reasons.
http://en.wikipedia....Syria_relations

Putin is in bed with Assad but Putin, unlike Assad, realizes that we are dead ****ing serious about removing Assad from this world if he gasses innocent people. Assad suffers from crappy little dictator superiority syndrome. His enjoyment being king of his bubble has caused him to lose perspective of just how easy his bubble would be to pop should he piss the wrong people off, which he has now done. He will not 'win' this. At this point, the best they can do is save face. As with Kennedy in Cuba, Russia was the key player here, they just blinked and Obama made them do it.

You mindless conservative ideaogues can chant your stupid mantras all you want but Obama is knocking shit out of the park left and right.
Health care, Bin Laden, Syria, economic recovery... Fox News talking points do nothing to undermine conclusions drawn from objective analysis on each of those issues.

His presidency compared to that of Bush is a spectacular embarassment for you clowns. Were it not for his apathy on reigning in domestic spying and shoring up privacy rights- also, on a more personal note, kind of appaled that he's used his executive clemency powers less than any other president in history, when there are more people than ever in need of post conviction relief given the ridiculous expansion of Federal prosecutions over the past 20 years- I'd say he would go down as an All Time Top 5 President.
He's a stone-cold lock for Top 10.
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#44 timwakefield

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 06:30 PM

The biggest mark against Obama's presidency it seems to me is his aggressive attacks on whistleblowers, and the domestic spying programs. The feds have charged 8 people under the vague, outdated Espionage Act under Obama, mostly on bullshit trumped up charges (the charges against Manning and Snowden could be argued to be valid). They're basically trying to scare people into keeping silent. Only 3 other people in history had ever been charged under that act since it was enacted 100 years ago. That, combined with the NSA spying revelations (which of course he didn't enact, but he sure as hell didn't reign them in either - quite the opposite), don't paint a great picture of America The Free under Obama.

As shitty as all that stuff is, he's done an awful lot right.
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#45 NickCave

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 10:05 PM

View Posttimwakefield, on 11 September 2013 - 06:30 PM, said:

The biggest mark against Obama's presidency it seems to me is his aggressive attacks on whistleblowers, and the domestic spying programs. The feds have charged 8 people under the vague, outdated Espionage Act under Obama, mostly on bullshit trumped up charges (the charges against Manning and Snowden could be argued to be valid). They're basically trying to scare people into keeping silent. Only 3 other people in history had ever been charged under that act since it was enacted 100 years ago. That, combined with the NSA spying revelations (which of course he didn't enact, but he sure as hell didn't reign them in either - quite the opposite), don't paint a great picture of America The Free under Obama.

As shitty as all that stuff is, he's done an awful lot right.

This is a really tough issue for a President. No matter how you feel about about Snowden, Manning, NSA, et al, it's easy to understand why a President might want to shut that shit down, or at least do what he can to stem the tide. I happen to think Snowden made a tough, self-sacrificing decision, but he also violated a number of laws, laws which exist for very good reason.

I think the way President Obama handles the Snowden situation going forward will be very telling. To be fair, he's really made very little noise about it, and I honestly believe if Putin secretly offered to turn Snowden over so he could stand trial in an American court, Obama would decline. The absolute worst thing that could happen would be for the US to get Snowden back alive. That's not to say Obama doesn't have a piss poor record re: transparency, NSA nonsense, etc., but there's more to the situation than what's a matter of public record.

#46 brvheart

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 10:07 PM


View PostiZuma, on 20 August 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

napa I was jesus christing suited, you guys just slipped in before me.

View PostEssay21, on 25 February 2013 - 08:32 PM, said:

.

#47 NickCave

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 10:18 PM

View PostAmScray, on 11 September 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:

Were it not for his apathy on... shoring up privacy rights... I'd say he would go down as an All Time Top 5 President.

This is one of my biggest concerns, and I think it's a huge deal. I tend to agree with the left on almost every privacy issue, from abortion to the internet to law enforcement, and it's one of the reasons I will almost never be able to vote Republican nationally. And Obama has really, really dropped the liberal ball, here. Privacy is so important. To quote Aaron Sorkin via Sam Seaborn:

It's about the next 20 years. In the '20s and '30s it was the role of government. '50s and '60s it was civil rights. The next two decades are going to be privacy. I'm talking about the Internet. I'm talking about cell phones. I'm talking about health records and who's gay and who's not. And moreover, in a country born on the will to be free, what could be more fundamental than this?

Melodrama aside, that quote is prescient. It was written in 1999, fourteen years ago, and in the last two years we've had SOPA and PRISM. Privacy is the biggest difference between Republicans and Democrats (or, perhaps more appropriately, conservatives and liberals), and that difference is the genesis of everything we tend to shout about today, so the fact that Obama has a shit privacy record is a bigger deal, I think, than you make it.

#48 NickCave

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 10:20 PM

View Postbrvheart, on 11 September 2013 - 10:07 PM, said:



Sweet clip, bro. Good point. Care to expound?

#49 brvheart

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 10:50 PM

View PostNickCave, on 11 September 2013 - 10:20 PM, said:

Sweet clip, bro. Good point. Care to expound?

http://latimesblogs....guantanamo.html

View PostiZuma, on 20 August 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

napa I was jesus christing suited, you guys just slipped in before me.

View PostEssay21, on 25 February 2013 - 08:32 PM, said:

.

#50 NickCave

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 10:59 PM

View Postbrvheart, on 11 September 2013 - 10:50 PM, said:


I'm asking what your point is. I'm asking you to put his actions in context, personally, politically, historically. I'm asking you to have an opinion on the situation, to not be a link-posting parrot. What did he do wrong? Why is it bad, both in a vacuum and comparatively? Is Obama a failure because of the nature of his promises? or his inability or refusal to keep them? Is this a consistent standard you hold all politicians, regardless of party affiliation, to? WHAT DON'T YOU LIKE ABOUT HIM REALLY?

Make a point, man. I'm asking you to say something.

#51 AmScray

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 01:45 AM

View Posttimwakefield, on 11 September 2013 - 06:30 PM, said:

The biggest mark against Obama's presidency it seems to me is his aggressive attacks on whistleblowers, and the domestic spying programs. The feds have charged 8 people under the vague, outdated Espionage Act under Obama, mostly on bullshit trumped up charges (the charges against Manning and Snowden could be argued to be valid). They're basically trying to scare people into keeping silent. Only 3 other people in history had ever been charged under that act since it was enacted 100 years ago. That, combined with the NSA spying revelations (which of course he didn't enact, but he sure as hell didn't reign them in either - quite the opposite), don't paint a great picture of America The Free under Obama.

It's the Chicago Way.

It's how things have always been done here.
People think it's some amusing euphamism or just a silly movie quote. It's not. It's totally, very much a 'real thing' and it comes as no shock to see a grizzled Chicago politician bring it with him to Washington.

When you sue the police department here, best case scenario, code enforcement finds 7 things wrong with your house. Worst case, your dog gets shot or you get pulled over and they 'find' a bag of herion or a hard drive full of child porn in your car...

When you speak out against a politician, suddenly, medical records relating to your wife are published on the internet. Who did it? How the **** did they get them? All that counts is what you can prove.

There's a pretty famous blog here called Second City Cop http://secondcitycop.blogspot.com that is run by an anonymous Chicago Police Officer. It's standard reading for all Chicago Cops, the author is politically oriented to the right but that blog has been the cause of more anguish and screaming behind closed doors at 35th street than anything else out there. They've relentlessly- almost hysterically- done everything imiginable to unmask who it is... because that's how we roll.

Part of the whole 'Chicago Code' is you keep your mouth shut. The implicit understanding is that business cannot be conducted effectively mired by bureaucracy, so you play by your own set of rules. Whistleblowers? Expect MASSIVE reprisals.

This is the city where the mayor ordered city workers with bulldozers to destroy an FAA approved airport while privately owned aircraft were still in their hangars. The reason? Lots of speculation. Lets just say that the "Chicago Casino" that's been in the pipeline for years and will eventually, someday come to fruition now has a likely spot. Likewise, his "Olympic Plan" called for cutting a huge corridor between Bridgeport and South Shore, effectively getting rid of the ghetto that seperated the two otherwise desirable areas, tilling fertile soil for gentrification to take hold and reclaim a lot of desirable lakefront proprerty in South Shore that is currently situated in the ghetto.

The Chicago Way is what it is. It's kinda hillarious to see it in action at the Presedential level and everyone around the country just baffled at whats going on.
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#52 InternetExplorer

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 03:40 AM

I am really, really enjoying how ridiculous the republican pundits look attempting to take the anti-war stance in an effort to continue to disagree with Obama. there's hours of footage of every. ****ing. one. of. them. from Fox spouting pro-war justifications from the duration of Iraq.

yeah, I just admitted I only care about the news as long as it makes for good daily show clips. come at me.
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#53 NickCave

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 03:49 AM

View PostAmScray, on 12 September 2013 - 01:45 AM, said:

The Chicago Way is what it is. It's kinda hillarious to see it in action at the Presedential level and everyone around the country just baffled at whats going on.

I've got a college buddy who's Chicago born and raised. I read AmScray's post and texted him about Chicago politics and the whole Chicago Way thing. Here's an excerpt of his email response:

"You do what you want and you **** people up who won't let you. Then you can do what you want later. They key is be really good at just doing what you want and not giving a shit. Obama wasn't OBAMA until he hooked up with one of Daley's guys. In 2000 he was losing congressional races. By 2012 he was strongarming the IRS because he's a boss, and in Chicago that is all that matters. It's not a values thing or an ethics thing. It's just the way things are. We expect this stuff. Obama is a brilliant man, an eloquent speaker, and a well qualified politician. Nobody here took him seriously until he stopped trying to be "better" than Chicago. Either you're a Boss or you're a fag. Obama is just USA Boss now."

MAKES PERFECT SENSE

#54 CaneBrain

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 04:28 AM

View Postbrvheart, on 11 September 2013 - 10:50 PM, said:


So, he actually tried fairly hard to close Guantanamo but he couldn't because Congress undercut him on the issue. And since he's a president not a king, he lost that fight.

What a promise breaking jerk!
"Give a little bit.....give a little bit of your chips to me...."

#55 brvheart

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 07:20 AM

View PostCaneBrain, on 12 September 2013 - 04:28 AM, said:

So, he actually tried fairly hard

lol

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You might want to take a look at 2009-2011, and then watch this:


View PostiZuma, on 20 August 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

napa I was jesus christing suited, you guys just slipped in before me.

View PostEssay21, on 25 February 2013 - 08:32 PM, said:

.

#56 CaneBrain

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 07:35 AM

Yep still not seeing your point. Even the democrat congressmen were too scared to put terrorist prison on American soil. Their irrational fear is not his failure.
"Give a little bit.....give a little bit of your chips to me...."

#57 brvheart

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 07:54 AM

View PostCaneBrain, on 12 September 2013 - 07:35 AM, said:

Yep still not seeing your point. Even the democrat congressmen were too scared to put terrorist prison on American soil. Their irrational fear is not his failure.



listen carefully to the question the interviewer asks at the beginning.

View PostiZuma, on 20 August 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

napa I was jesus christing suited, you guys just slipped in before me.

View PostEssay21, on 25 February 2013 - 08:32 PM, said:

.

#58 CaneBrain

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 08:54 AM

No Sorry I'm done wading through an endless parade of videos and links. Use your words.
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#59 brvheart

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 09:14 AM

Posted Image

View PostiZuma, on 20 August 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

napa I was jesus christing suited, you guys just slipped in before me.

View PostEssay21, on 25 February 2013 - 08:32 PM, said:

.

#60 Cha! Cha!

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 09:20 AM

I'd actually also prefer you use your words since I can't watch the videos.


Edit: But I think actually linking the videos is good as a source.




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