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Should I Call This


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#1 freefrog99

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 10:38 PM

Okay this happen to me when i was in mid position playing live games at paris france.Blind was 2-2. The table was loose a lot of limpers like to call with suited connector and protect their blind when you raise to 14 to 16.
i was dealt k 10 of hearts in mid position. Utg pops it to 10. Utg 1 call. I reraise it to 32. Fold to sb who calls. Utg re raise to 65 i think for a while and cal. Sb calls too.

Flop was Qh 8h 2d
sb bets 70(he has around 100 behind now)
Utg is all in for 110
I cover both of them in chip stacks. I ve about 500 behind. I know my odds will be around 33percent to win the pot. I ve already invested 65bucks. I should call this one right?? I did end up calling abyway. Is this the right moves??


#2 W1zardahAus

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 12:30 AM

Well you surely have plenty of outs to make the call. King high / flush / straight.. Pre flop you could easily say you were behind Giving their position and being re raised but the flop is pretty good for you.. You're only drawing but if you hit with all those outs you get a big pay off.. Depends weather you want to gamble really. I probably would have folded K 10 after being re raised from earlier position since it's not too strong of a hand.. But if I was in your position and had plenty of chips to use I'd most likely call.. looking at your pot odds and what, 18 outs?

Did you end up hitting?
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#3 TrueAce13

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 10:00 AM

not a huge fan at all of the 3bet here pre given your description of the table dynamics, as well as realizing how shallow the stacks are.

To answer the question of calling this on the flop, we should look to our good ol' friend 'pokerstove' and calculate our equity against what ranges you think they have to see if it +ev to call! I'm too lazy to do that right now, but i think you'll learn more by doing that yourself
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#4 StormDeal

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 10:40 AM

Really not sure what you are trying to accomplish here. I understand you are one of the bigger stacks at the table and you are probably trying to use your stack to push people around. Reraising with K 10 Hearts preflop, definitely not the hand to do it with. So many hands have you crushed AK KQ even KJ.

Then you can get away from your hand when you are once again reraised. The flop is about as good as you can expect, but you still have to worry about someone having AX of hearts. Now you want to call an all in bet with a draw? The result of the hand does not matter. If you call all in bets on a draw on a reg basis you will be a LOSING player.

I dont think people realize this sometimes. It is so different to go all in as opposed to calling an all in. The other member suggested you calculate your preflop odds of you being ahead in the hand preflop. I would say your probably have about a 23% chance of winning preflop. If you think this was a good play I would like to invite you to my home game.

#5 TrueAce13

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 10:59 AM

you can see your equity on the flop as well, not just pre
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#6 gadjet

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 11:49 AM

I'm seeing 9 outs (not 18?) so I'm going with that (plus 1% added for the backdoor straight)... Yes you call for 110 and hope SB doesn't shove (depends on house rules whether half raise opens the door)... 110 to win 427 with 2 cards to come.

I don't mind your 3 bet preflop as a semibluff pre to take control (not every hand but occasionally is fine), but I don't like your call of his 65 because he only has 110 behind... the bet sizing wreaks of strength (betting ~37% of his stack) so I just give him the pot... 4 bet is usually strong at that level and it's usually best to just respect that unless you have specific info telling you to do otherwise...

IF I decide to play the hand with K10 after the 4 bet (think he's making a move, raising light or is on an underpair.) I am 5 betting preflop for his stack and isolation. that said, I'm not doing this often unless I've picked up some info that tells me too... I'm laying down to his 4 bet most times...
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#7 freefrog99

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 01:29 PM

This is what i see guys. Correct me if i m wrong. Sb is going to move all in anyway for sure. I kinda thought the call is standard. And he only min raise me preflop i should call preflop and the fact that i have position makes me want to call more. So when the flop gives me a k high flush draw makes me cant fold this hand. Runner runner straight is possible but unlikely. I was also thinking i might spike a king on the turn or river to win the pot. The utg is a fish station and abit crazy. Sb is a tight ass. I figure i am up by 200 plus and its worth a shot. 33 percent win is not bat and the fact i ve already invested 65 bucks makes me want to call even more. I dont know i think folding is the worst decision. So yeah i call and doesnt hit any hearts. Sb turns over k k. Utg turns over AA. o well i have my shot and things dont go my way

#8 donk4life

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 01:36 PM

he only minraise preflop is really a bad strategy to abide by. you're getting reverse implied odds to call and stacks aren't near deep enough to be doing this, you shouldn't be 3betting this hand in the first place.

View Postakashenk, on 02 August 2012 - 06:44 AM, said:

I don't mind folding out hands we beat.

#9 freefrog99

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 01:36 PM

Btw i am Lag player. So my play is kinda messy bit i know what i am doing who to bluff and what kind of bluff works to what kind of player. I do pay attention on the showdown cards etc. I try being a tag player but doesnt suit me. You know live game is a lot easier than online. I think 0.05 0.1 blind player is alot better than 1 -2 live game poker. I m not trying to boast or anything but i just felt that way. I have seen utg move all in for 50 bucks with 5 2 suited. He lost and reload after all. Live poker plauers are that crazy yes.

#10 freefrog99

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 01:39 PM

I know i shouldnt 3bet k 10 suited. When i look back at my play. I kinda thinking i can minimize my losses by slowing it down. Thanks for the reminder. Trying to be too creative cost me 200 bucks.

#11 donk4life

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 01:43 PM

you also shouldn't take the mentality 'shit i'm up money lets fkin gamble'

View Postakashenk, on 02 August 2012 - 06:44 AM, said:

I don't mind folding out hands we beat.

#12 TrueAce13

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 02:02 PM

fk that, gun it in!!!
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#13 freefrog99

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 02:06 PM

Lol. Yeah. But a k high flush draw its like a coin flip with 3 people. Its a 33 percent. so i figure lets do it. And chasing a draw is so straightforward. When i am so deep stacked i prefer to have a drawing hand with a deepstacked villain.Anyway thanks for the input guys its really helpful. =)

#14 freefrog99

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 02:09 PM

Btw stormdeal i m not trying to push people around with chips. It doesnt work that way in cash game. In a tournament yes u can be a big bully if you ve lot of chips.

#15 gadjet

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 04:50 PM

View Postfreefrog99, on 06 August 2013 - 01:29 PM, said:

Correct me if i m wrong. Sb is going to move all in anyway for sure. I kinda thought the call is standard. And he only min raise me preflop i should call preflop and the fact that i have position makes me want to call more.
This is exactly what you should be thinking when you call his min raise preflop. As Donk4 said "you're getting reverse implied odds to call"... so by calling his min raise you are committing to calling pretty much every flop shove blind. The bad call here isn't your post flop call, it's your preflop call.

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I was also thinking i might spike a king on the turn or river to win the pot.
You should be very aware that a K is unlikely to be an out... (notice I didn't count it in my previous post).

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Btw i am Lag player. So my play is kinda messy bit i know what i am doing who to bluff and what kind of bluff works to what kind of player. I do pay attention on the showdown cards etc. I m not trying to boast or anything but i just felt that way.
This is a brag post, and I recommend you talk less about your style and focus more on what some very good poker players are offering for input on your original post.

If you are a LAG player, then 100% you should be recognizing that a 4 bet min raise is a trap (by both players) to get you to double them up... if you're playing LAG then a fold to the 4 bet is a must.

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I have seen utg move all in for 50 bucks with 5 2 suited.
If this is the history you're going on and you feel you might be up against this range, then you should be 5 bet isolating for his stack for sure. Turns out you still would've lost to SB KK but don't let that change the way you should've played the hand. Also there is a massive difference between moving all in preflop for $50 with 5 2 suited and min-raising to $65 for 37% of a stack preflop...

Lol I just clicked Like this on all posts except op's... there were a lot of likeable posts...
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#16 freefrog99

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 09:30 PM

Not trying to brag there gadjet. I am just thinking of telling my type of style for my table image.

#17 StormDeal

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 07:00 AM

I guess we disagree. I feel you can push people around in a cash game. In this particular hand you could not because you were against AA and KK. I really enjoyed your post. Dont sweat the criticism. We are all here to learn and 99% of us are not pros, I am far from it.

I would rather see you make this move with 9 8 of Hearts than K 10. When I first started playing 10 years ago I though K 10 was a good hand. Now I feel its one of the worst because you are so easily dominated by almost any other K and unless you hit 2 pair or straight on flop you will have no idea where you are. I agree with the post above that says that you cannot count on your K as an out because your kicker is weak. And I also agree with posts above that say you should not just throw your chips in on a gamble.

If you were not trying to push people around with your 3 bet than what were you trying to do? Did you really think you had the best hand? The only reason you should 3 bet is to push others out or build a pot.

#18 freefrog99

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 12:23 PM

Yes stormdeal i am not offended by ur post. And u are right we are here to learn. I think that any suited connector hand is good plus if have position so yeah. I m trying to scare them away preflop. If they did call still my hand wasnt that bad to begin with.
I always play tight in utg utg+1 or mid position and play loose if ive have hijack position or dealer.

#19 freefrog99

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 12:27 PM

I guess i should listen to you more since u played longer than me. I am going to switzerland casino tomorrow and i ll update you guys some intresting hand. Ciao

#20 StormDeal

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 10:06 AM

Good luck to you free froggy!




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