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Kk Top Set Weird Action?


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#1 freefrog99

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 12:39 AM

This is my first post so be nice kay.I start playing poker again after a long break. This happen at 1 2 cash game at tulalip casino. I was at hj position raise with kk to 10bucks. Everyone folds and sb pops it to 30. Bb folds. I call thinking that i got position and let the sb hangs himself. I am at $250 and villain covers me at around $300 stack.
Flop comes K J 10 rainbow..
Top set. Sb leads out for 40 and i call for slowplay. Sb plays pretty much like abc player i ve been at the table for 3 orbits no definite read on him.
Turn is 3 and makes it a complete rainbow.
Sb checks. I bet 75.sb calls. When he calls me i was thinking sb might have flop a set too maybe 10 10 jj. QQ OR AAis another possiblity. One of those 4
River is 8.
He went all in immidiately?????
I am left with about 105. I call thinking that there is a lot of hand i can beat and i ve already invested 60percent of my stacks. Any thought guys??
I ll post the result later

#2 donk4life

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 07:21 AM

Sorry that you ran into AQ.

But try to get stacks in preflop.

As played, I guess flatting the flop is fine. Rest is good. Don't ever consider folding the river.

View Postakashenk, on 02 August 2012 - 06:44 AM, said:

I don't mind folding out hands we beat.

#3 gadjet

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 04:27 PM

View Postdonk4life, on 01 August 2013 - 07:21 AM, said:

Sorry that you ran into AQ.

Don't ever consider folding the river.

The reason you can't ever consider folding the river is because you've given him no reason to understand your hands strength so his pushable range is wider.

I don't mind your flat pre depending on your table image. I'll buy the argument that it creates the potential to win a larger pot and disguises your hand heads up.

What I don't like is your "call for slowplay" on the flop. The K J 10 flop is not a safe flop for you. While you've flopped a monster, there are 12 cards in the deck that are scare cards... and AQ (we'll take Q9 suited out of SB's range trusting your ABC player analysis) is well within his range.

I want to be taking back control with a raise on this flop 100% of the time.
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#4 TrueAce13

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 05:23 PM

meh, rather cib pre, but i think after that I don't mind how it was played too much.
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#5 freefrog99

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 05:44 PM

Thanks guys for the reply. Well it was short handed 6 players in the table. Everyone is bluffing more often so i always thought disguising my hands once in a while is a good thing. Sometimes i play KK fast sometimes i play it slow. :)

#6 TrueAce13

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 07:21 PM

well if everyone is more bluffy at this table, then why do you have a question about calling this river?
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#7 freefrog99

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 08:11 PM

For short handed table arent you supposed to bluff more often etc.. i did end up calling anyway. Welll who fold top set?? Its gonna bugging me for a few days if i fold top set -.-!!

#8 donk4life

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 11:37 AM

i think raising this flop polarizes your range wayyyyy too much.

View Postakashenk, on 02 August 2012 - 06:44 AM, said:

I don't mind folding out hands we beat.

#9 donk4life

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 11:38 AM

Unless of course there's some sort of dynamic going on, which I don't believe to be the case.

View Postakashenk, on 02 August 2012 - 06:44 AM, said:

I don't mind folding out hands we beat.

#10 CorvairShaggy

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 02:00 PM

Unless you have an ungodly read on the guy, how do you not go for all or broke on this hand? If you re-raise the flop, but even at a min-raise, you are going to be about 40-something % committed here. I can see re-raising to all in on the flop. Eliminate his draw, and if he flopped it, then he flopped it. Slow-playing it out did give him a chance to draw out, but if two duds come and he still is bluffing at it, then you make money. If he played you, and you go broke, "Nice Hand, Sir", and move on. The only thing I can see about not shoving the flop is scaring away free money. Personally I just chalk this one up to bad luck and move on.
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#11 gadjet

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 08:22 PM

View Postdonk4life, on 02 August 2013 - 11:37 AM, said:

i think raising this flop polarizes your range wayyyyy too much.
I don't mind polarizing my range in this spot, because his hand is also pretty polarized with a narrow preflop range.
Hands in his range that are not the 2 made straights are very seldom folding... AA QQ JJ 1010 AK... and the vast majority of times he should have one of these or AQ...

All of those hands should still be playing for stacks more than likely as long as the bet sizing is played correctly.

If he's not in those hands and it's just a wild bluff (preflop and CBet post) I'm fine with taking down the pot as is....

If he has a Q I would like him to pay for his draw.
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#12 freefrog99

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 01:58 AM

Well he flips aq for the nuts straight. I ve been running bad this weeek. Losta few coin flip situation. My K high flush get killed. O well thats poker. Still trying to improve on handling tilt

#13 donk4life

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 06:08 AM

View Postgadjet, on 02 August 2013 - 08:22 PM, said:

I don't mind polarizing my range in this spot, because his hand is also pretty polarized with a narrow preflop range.
Hands in his range that are not the 2 made straights are very seldom folding... AA QQ JJ 1010 AK... and the vast majority of times he should have one of these or AQ...

All of those hands should still be playing for stacks more than likely as long as the bet sizing is played correctly.

If he's not in those hands and it's just a wild bluff (preflop and CBet post) I'm fine with taking down the pot as is....

If he has a Q I would like him to pay for his draw.

You say he has a polarized range preflop, yet you're talking about charging his draw if he has a queen on the flop. The only hand that would probably 3bet pre in this spot is AQ, don't think he has another qx hand, I guess queens and maybeee kq

If he has a wild bluff, you're happy taking down the pot on the flop? Do you hate money?

I mean I'm not against raising the flop against a nittier player because he range is going to be capped and likely be playing for stacks on that board regardless, but the way he described the table I think peoples' ranges are a bit wider pre than what you're attributing to them. So, you could potentially keep bluffs and weaker hands in their range by flatting.

View Postakashenk, on 02 August 2012 - 06:44 AM, said:

I don't mind folding out hands we beat.

#14 gadjet

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 11:33 AM

QQ and KQ suited were the hands I was talking about... also hopefully gaining info on if he has AQ in his hand.

I didn't say I was happy to take it down, I said I'm fine with taking down the pot against a wild bluff.

Reason being is that in this spot I'm pretty confident that he's not on a wild bluff... because it would have to be an insanely wild bluff in this spot given OP's description. So because I'm confident that the majority of times my flop action is going to be met with call or raise, I'm fine with exposing my hand as strong on the flop in an effort to get info on his strength and make sure he's paying for draws and or losing hands... if he happens to have a wild bluff then I will adjust my assessment of him as a player from ABC for the next hand.

Of the SB's suggested range he should be laying 0 of them down to a raise, so it's really the info how he responds and plays against this raise that gives us a chance of making a hero fold if necessary... it's also our flop raise that's getting money in good when we're ahead against all the potential scare cards.
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#15 donk4life

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 01:32 PM

Yeah I can agree with that. This is type of player who probably has premium hands and will never fold any part of his range on that board.

View Postakashenk, on 02 August 2012 - 06:44 AM, said:

I don't mind folding out hands we beat.




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