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Daniel Negreanu Rebuys 6 Times...what Were You Thinking?


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#1 MPaler

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 03:13 PM

Ok, DN, you made 6 re-buys into this event - 60k? (2013 LAPC). I would love to hear your reasoning. There has to be more to it than "I felt like I could win."

How did this affect your play? Did you simply take more chances knowing you could simply re-pop another 10k each time you lost?

Looking back on it, you spent 60k for a chance to win 1 million plus. Or, make the money, possibly for less than you paid out in re-buys. Do you have any regrets? Will you gladly do it again?
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#2 blakheart

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 08:45 PM

It is pretty standard for pros to do this. The advantage of a big stack early will carry you deep into a tournament. A lot of pros will take chances in a rebuy tourney hoping to get a lot chips early. They feel that with a lot of chips and their skill set they can often final table an event.

#3 MPaler

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 11:06 PM

View Postblakheart, on 27 June 2013 - 08:45 PM, said:

It is pretty standard for pros to do this. The advantage of a big stack early will carry you deep into a tournament. A lot of pros will take chances in a rebuy tourney hoping to get a lot chips early. They feel that with a lot of chips and their skill set they can often final table an event.

Makes sense. If you know you are going to rebuy you can take more chances, be a bit more risky, trying to stack up. Yet therein lies one problem; the smart players know this is what you are doing and might also take more chances against you or (in trapping you) offer you a tempting looking situation you might not otherwise take knowing you will. I'm sure it was pocket change to him (lol) anyway. Did it do that, you think, make him more of a target? Was he a less dangerous Daniel or a more Dangerous Daniel?

Wait - Is there any such thing as a "less" dangerous Daniel Negreanu (lol)?
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#4 gadjet

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 03:12 PM

I was trying to avoid this conversation because I just don't really like it... but you seem to be very interested and looking for some response.

I'm pretty sure anyone entering a rebuy doesn't care too much about levelling themselves on the idea of multiple bullets...

DN blogged about his rebuy strategy in 2006 when he bought into a 1k rebuy event 48 times. You can google Negreanu rebuy strategy and you'll see plenty written on it...

"In rebuys there is an inherent advantage for those who are willing to spend more... They are good for me, because I'm all too willing to spend, but I know it is an unfair advantage and I'd rather not have it. I've said this before: I am more than willing to put what's best for poker ahead of what's best for me."

On top of this a large factor is that if you are at the table with the most buyins, then you are at the table with the most chips... as long as your table doesn't break, then your table has an advantage over the rest of the tables. If you are the best player at the table, then you have the best shot at winning the tournament.
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#5 MPaler

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 08:16 AM

View Postgadjet, on 30 June 2013 - 03:12 PM, said:

I was trying to avoid this conversation because I just don't really like it... but you seem to be very interested and looking for some response.

I'm pretty sure anyone entering a rebuy doesn't care too much about levelling themselves on the idea of multiple bullets...

DN blogged about his rebuy strategy in 2006 when he bought into a 1k rebuy event 48 times. You can google Negreanu rebuy strategy and you'll see plenty written on it...

"In rebuys there is an inherent advantage for those who are willing to spend more... They are good for me, because I'm all too willing to spend, but I know it is an unfair advantage and I'd rather not have it. I've said this before: I am more than willing to put what's best for poker ahead of what's best for me."

On top of this a large factor is that if you are at the table with the most buyins, then you are at the table with the most chips... as long as your table doesn't break, then your table has an advantage over the rest of the tables. If you are the best player at the table, then you have the best shot at winning the tournament.

So, you do not think this weakens you, makes you a target? Turns you, basically, into an ATM?

I wonder if there is a way to find out "what number of rebuys are most successful"; If a lower number makes more sense or if those 48/60 rebuys ever paid off. Perhaps no one has ever won money/made it worthwhile beyond 10 or so.
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#6 FCP Bob

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 08:45 AM

you also need to factor in that Daniel gets far more value from winning bracelets and big tourneys than the 1st place prize money due to side bets and extra marketability with wins so if he can increase the chances of winning the whole tournament it makes sense within reason
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#7 SuperJon

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 08:47 AM

When I used to play rebuys online, I never worried too much about how many times I would rebuy.

The beauty of the rebuy period is being overly aggressive with hands you might not otherwise. Not just to set up an aggressive image, but because people are more willing to call off with weaker holdings since they can just rebuy.

#8 MPaler

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 09:18 AM

View PostSuperJon, on 07 July 2013 - 08:47 AM, said:

When I used to play rebuys online, I never worried too much about how many times I would rebuy.

The beauty of the rebuy period is being overly aggressive with hands you might not otherwise. Not just to set up an aggressive image, but because people are more willing to call off with weaker holdings since they can just rebuy.

Very good points. Side bets/action could pay for all the rebuys.

I played at a live micro event with $5.00 rebuys, it was crazy! First 10 hands had someone all in. I did O.K. I did not have to rebuy at all, then bubbled. One guy did, as I recall, barely break even. He made the money, but it was not enough to exceed his rebuys.
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#9 gadjet

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 09:47 AM

View PostMPaler, on 07 July 2013 - 08:16 AM, said:

So, you do not think this weakens you, makes you a target? Turns you, basically, into an ATM?

I wonder if there is a way to find out "what number of rebuys are most successful"; If a lower number makes more sense or if those 48/60 rebuys ever paid off. Perhaps no one has ever won money/made it worthwhile beyond 10 or so.

You don't really care if it weakens you, or makes you a target because players can only respond by tightening up their preflop range or gambling more... either way it doesn't really affect your play during the rebuy period unless the whole table responds in the same way then it would change your hand selection.

I have no idea about finding the optimal number of rebuys... too many factors for me to buy into any theory that claims to find one...

Bob's point is huge in this discussion with it being related to DN's rebuying... I don't think it can be compared to a micro event.
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#10 MPaler

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 12:34 PM

Right, so without the right game (in a micro it would not make a lot of sense to do this, clearly) it is not very valid. You can do it in real games for side action, marketability, etc; The reason I was wondering about those numbers was to see if a certain number could be figured out as a good idea for a strategy at winning a tourney. I see some who re-buy once or twice and end up at the final table. DN is probably not always concerned about a WPT win, if he can make more money on the side and gain marketability by rebuying 6 times at 10k a pop.

Ah, must be nice to be fat cat poker player, eh? Even when they lose they win.
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#11 gadjet

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 12:50 PM

No, it's not solely about the side action, there are many fields / prize pools where this strategy still works.... micros as well.

I was just saying I wouldn't compare the circuit events (larger buyins) with the micros because they are very different.

If you're looking for games where the super aggressive rebuy strategy is best used, I think in general the larger the field the more appropriate rebuy-donkshoving "strategy" becomes.
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