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Did I Play This Hand Bad?


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#1 Wsop378

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 08:27 PM

Live tournament daily MTT in LA

Blinds 400/200/50 ante increase every 20mins
my stack 10,000 in SB 10 handed

There are 2 limpers utg + 3 =(Very loose and spiking rivers like crazy) and cutoff (solid player TAG) gets to me look down at pocket 99 I raise to 2400 utg+3 calls and cutoff follows behind. Now my plan here is it's a favorable flop I jam now if it has more than 1 over or super coordinated check and see what happens behind so the flop comes TT3 rainbow so I jam loose player calls and cutoff folds and reveals KTo and I am out the door!!!

In retrospect the only other way I can see me playing this is to jam preflop just wondering if there are any other thoughts how I shoud've played this hand ?

#2 FARGOpokerND

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 12:07 AM

You can raise to 1500-1700, you can jam, you shouldn't raise to 2400. Once you do that, you are leaving yourself no maneuverability for the flop.

Once they check to you, jamming won't be terrible. If you had raised to...lets say 1500...both call so pot is 5600, chk to you, you have 8500 left and you can bet something like 2150 on the flop. I'm fine getting it in here, even if someone check/jams on me because this is a spot where they may think its good to bluff. The problem with jamming is you're only going to get called by better most times...maybe 77-88 here and there but its pretty much your only option because so many bad cards come on turn.

So yeah...
-Raise less preflop so you can get inducers on the flop like this and give you more maneuverability overall
-Or jam preflop, since your range is really far ahead of theirs and just take down the 1900
-As played pre, flop jam is shrugmehwhatever.

#3 Wsop378

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 11:58 AM

So I really need to start sizing my raises better it seems to be a big leak I have but it's just in these daily tournaments that the min raise or 2.2x thru 2.5x seems to get called by at least 2 players but very common to see 3-4 callers and unless you flop gin your maneuverability diminishes significantly and I find myself just giving up and the play is like this up to level 600/300 after this the 2.5x raise seems to do the job for heads up play.

Now on the flop you said once they check to you, jamming won't be terrible but I am in the small blind so this won't work as am first to act.

Thanks Fargo I do appreciate all your help!!!!

#4 FARGOpokerND

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 04:08 PM

Ahhh...sorry, I didn't realize you were in the SB (I was tired) in the hand. That changes things.

Your raise size isn't too far off then. In position, you want to make smaller raises because you gain control of the hand while risking minimal amount of chips. Out of position, you want to either win the pot outright by dissuading callers from coming along or build a pot up for value.

99 in this instance, you are happy taking the pot down, but if you are called, you know you are near certain to have the best hand preflop.

TT3 is a very good flop for your hand. Your raise size is probably not that far off at all (I'd end up making it 2200 or something, I think?) and jamming flop is fine too, unless you KNOW someone will bet if you check, in which case check/jamming is better.



Sorry for earlier post, totally misread hand.

#5 Wsop378

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 09:57 PM

So basically it was just bad luck here kinda a cooler but I like the point you made about positional raise sizes that makes total sense and made me aware of another thing that I need to be aware of thanks for the help!

#6 FARGOpokerND

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 03:52 AM

Yeah, chalk it up to just bad luck. That's a pretty good flop for 99 so just move on to the next one!

#7 Wsop378

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 12:35 PM

My plan is to make notes of hands that I may have played bad during live tournaments that I will be playing and post on this forum for opinions and advice so my question is should I stick to this one thread with those questions or is it better to make additional threads I am pretty sure the obvious answer is to stick with this thread but just wanted to make sure.

Fargo thanks for your advice, I do value it and glad I finally have someone to talk poker with so thanks again and peace out!!!

#8 blakheart

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 08:23 AM

Is completing from the SB so bad here?

I would think this is a call or jam preflop. You have an M of about 9. So I would think jamming preflop would be the best choice. However if you call, you have more flexibility after the flop. The price is certainly favorable.

I don't like the a small raise, you will seldom get anyone except possibly the BB to fold. You will still be out off position. You will have a smaller stack compared to the pot, so it will force you to call off lighter or shove lighter. It will also give your opponents better odds to call you light.

I agree that the flop is a good one for your hand, so I think going broke here is pretty likely no matter how you play it.

#9 donk4life

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 05:34 PM

I think we lose too much value by jamming. It probably won't necessarily be too tricky playing our hand post flop either.

View Postakashenk, on 02 August 2012 - 06:44 AM, said:

I don't mind folding out hands we beat.

#10 TrueAce13

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 08:22 PM

sigh....i think this is close (tho i'm horrible obv)

like, I get jamming might lose some valu, but i think a live-donkament player is gonna call to a smallish raise here a decent amount. I don't feel too comfortable on a lot of flops

i dunno....i suck at this game now...

edit: I just think every option sucks
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#11 Wsop378

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 11:04 PM

I can't believe it I busted with 99 errrrrr!!!! again ok here is the scenario which is different at least tell me what you all think thanks!

Blinds 1600/800/200 ante (I am in BB) 10 handed

Stacks hero (50,000)
Utg+3 villain (140,000 to150,000) chip leader at table
utg+4 villain (120,000)second chip leader at table
Button villain (12,000) short stack at table

These are the positions involved in the hand. My table broke so I just got moved to my new table and have no reads and this is the second hand dealt at my new table.

Utg+3 raises to 3600 utg+4 flats and button flats which is very odd so I figure he has a monster or suited connectors so I look down and surprise 99 in BB so I decide to flat because button flat seems strange and I have no reads on these new players.

Flop Ks 9s 3h bingo I think

So I decide to check hoping original raiser (Utg+3) c-bets but he checks then Utg+4 jams 120,000 button snap calls and I do likewise and OR folds

Turn Ts River 4s Board = Ks 9s 3h Ts 5s

Utg+4 has As 4s
Button Ah Kh not sure why he didn't shove pre but I would even know it is a very obvious shove :)
Me :( 99 and out ;(

Now it is easy for me to say it was a easy jam and A4spades folds so is there anyway to look at this different or just another bad play

#12 FARGOpokerND

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 12:12 AM

Hard for the river to be 4s if villain has A4ss!

But that's ok, I'm sure it was a typo. What are you upset about? You got it in really good for a huge stack and just got unlucky.

That way played is most definitely fine. Depending on the dynamic, you can likely jam here very profitably because you'd pick up the SB+antes+3600 of each big stack and the BTN is never folding here so you would be in real good shape vs btn's flat/flat range. Also 99 doesn't play well postflop OOP vs 3 villains.

That being said, flatting is never ever a bad option and you played it just fine.

#13 Wsop378

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 01:21 AM

Yes it was typo so I fixed it. I just asked a few people at the casino that I converse with on occasion and they all said it was a obvious jam but that was after I told them how it went down but I really didn't think me flat call there was that bad and if it holds up my EV goes way up

#14 gadjet

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 03:29 PM

First hand, I think I like a jam here, or a silly raise to like 8k or something because imo it makes the hand look stronger than a straight jam does... with a raise to 2400 you are effectively committing your stack on anything but a 3 face card flop... and I really don't like a 25% of your stack raise then fold.
So really imo it's just not a good spot for 9's, your stack and your position... so I like the shove... my next vote would be to treat it like a small pocket pair and just flat for setmining or other dreamflop...

Second hand, money went in great you lost to a flush... you shouldn't be asking in hindsight how you can get a flush draw to fold off this pot... so you should be looking at your game philosophy and why you're questioning your play in what's clearly a runout spot. (Even if you decide to lead out on the flop here, you're not looking to bet for fold equity, you're looking to get callers... )
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