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Boston Marathon Bombing


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#41 timwakefield

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 01:01 AM

I kinda hope white hat survives. I'm glad one of them is dead, but if this guy survives he can lead them to whoever aided him and his dead friend, and/or can give answers to why they did this, and/or can possibly help investigators learn things that can help them in the future.

And then I hope he gets the federal death penalty. I dunno if that is even an option, but we don't have the death penalty in weak-ass Mass.
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#42 AmScray

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 03:00 AM

Well they're already out with names and ethnicities: Chechens, they're brothers.
No need for a therapy session to determine motive. I too was hoping they got the other one alive for questioning but at this point, it doesn't matter. It's Jihad bullshit. Hope the other one dies too.
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#43 FCP Bob

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 03:01 AM

View PostAmScray, on 19 April 2013 - 03:00 AM, said:

Well they're already out with names and ethnicities: Chechens, they're brothers.
No need for a therapy session to determine motive.

which makes them White Muslims
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#44 AmScray

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 03:03 AM

View PostFCP Bob, on 19 April 2013 - 03:01 AM, said:

which makes them White Muslims

"White".
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#45 mrdannyg

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 04:52 AM

View PostWhiskers, on 18 April 2013 - 02:44 PM, said:

None of the articles I've read have said that anyone knows the cause of the explosion.

True, and amazingly, no one is speculating or blaming "acknowledging-predictable-patterns" when the patterns suggest something that isn't brown guys.

View PostAmScray, on 18 April 2013 - 03:39 PM, said:

You'd think that distinction would go without saying, but I guess to those driving the anti-acknowledging-predictable-patterns-in-certain-races agenda, it needs to be said.

It's OK though. I hear Danny is from Canada and they have towns with lots of Orientals, so they know what its like in the hood.

Criminal negligence is considered willful.

View Postaucu, on 18 April 2013 - 06:58 PM, said:

Boston was a terrorist attack with the time and place chosen to get the most attention, impact and strike the most terror.
You spin this to blame the media for covering it and drawing probable conclusions?

Your post is completely devoid of a logical basis. It only gets the most attention, impact and terror if the media blows it up and people choose to be frightened by an event that logically they should not be as frightened by.

I blame the media and idiots like you for assuming Muslims as a "probable conclusion," which is doubly impressive, since an actual Muslim would never do something like that. Perhaps an extremist, but calling an extremist "Muslim" is like calling a member of the KKK a "Christian." Seriously.
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#46 ShakeZuma

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 04:54 AM

haha, their uncle called the older one a loser.


seems odd that they've been here a long time apparently, especially since a young age. to me that leaves it up in the air on the islamic crazy vs. plain crazy motive. no proof that they're actually muslim anyways.


god damn wrestlers.

View PostAmScray, on 30 August 2010 - 12:41 PM, said:

one cannot possibly ascribe themselves to the larger (D) philosophy without first being a poon

#47 timwakefield

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 05:56 AM

The older one (dead) is named after a notorious historical Muslim leader. It would be similar to naming your kid Napoleon, as far as notoriety and name recognition.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamerlan
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#48 FCP Bob

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 06:06 AM

Boston suspect's web page venerates Islam, Chechen independence
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#49 FCP Bob

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 06:53 AM

ian bremmer ‏@ianbremmer 27m
Watertown, MA has one of the nation's highest concentrations of immigrants from Caucasus/N Caucasus. Could well explain "Why Boston."


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Critical point in fleeing to Watertown is whether the bombers had links to/support from others with Chechen/regional ties living there.
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#50 BigDMcGee

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 07:01 AM

View PostAmScray, on 19 April 2013 - 03:03 AM, said:

"White".

One was a gold glove boxer, how white could he be?
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#51 aucu

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 07:34 AM

View Postmrdannyg, on 19 April 2013 - 04:52 AM, said:

Your post is completely devoid of a logical basis. It only gets the most attention, impact and terror if the media blows it up and people choose to be frightened by an event that logically they should not be as frightened by.

I blame the media and idiots like you for assuming Muslims as a "probable conclusion," which is doubly impressive, since an actual Muslim would never do something like that. Perhaps an extremist, but calling an extremist "Muslim" is like calling a member of the KKK a "Christian." Seriously.

I don't suppose that the media attention had anything to do with the terrorists picking the finish line of a major international sporting event? Much better and more PC to assume that it is just because they hate brown or Islamic people.

If you think that it makes me an idiot to think that the the possible perpetrators in decreasing order of probability would look something like
-Islamic terrorists
-Random criminal-loon (Washington sniper type)
-Right wing-nut (Oklahoma bomber type)
-Left wing-nut Anti-capitalist occupy everything types
-Eco Terrorists
-Elmer Fudd
-Mickey Mouse
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#52 BigDMcGee

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 07:51 AM

So how much do you want to bet this is going to end up with Russia leveraging US support for another brutal Chechnya campaign?
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#53 FCP Bob

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 07:54 AM

View PostBigDMcGee, on 19 April 2013 - 07:51 AM, said:

So how much do you want to bet this is going to end up with Russia leveraging US support for another brutal Chechnya campaign?

Putin is loving every minute of this without a doubt.
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#54 mrdannyg

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 09:11 AM

View Postaucu, on 19 April 2013 - 07:34 AM, said:

I don't suppose that the media attention had anything to do with the terrorists picking the finish line of a major international sporting event? Much better and more PC to assume that it is just because they hate brown or Islamic people.

If you think that it makes me an idiot to think that the the possible perpetrators in decreasing order of probability would look something like
-Islamic terrorists
-Random criminal-loon (Washington sniper type)
-Right wing-nut (Oklahoma bomber type)
-Left wing-nut Anti-capitalist occupy everything types
-Eco Terrorists
-Elmer Fudd
-Mickey Mouse

Three things. One, that you and most of this thread have left out - this is not Islam. Perhaps Islam-themed Extremism. No one called the Oklahoma bomber Christian without the word "extremist" or "nut" and you should do the same here.

Two - media attention is one thing. Of course it is getting attention, that's why they did it there. Media attention is different than willfully inciting terror. If people want to be scared, they should be a lot more scared of a poorly inspected factory near them blowing up, destroying an entire town, rather than a carefully planned attack that was designed more for attention than actual damage.

Three - like Scram, you're pointing to past events and racism to determine probability. Not the worst way to do it, I'll admit. Probability is a lot less than certainty though, and you need to be goddamn certain to make the assertions that you and millions of others have made in the past 48 hours. To do so with any less than certainty is the kind of deep-seated and severely dangerous racism that you guys love to pretend is in your past (except Scram, who denies nothing).
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#55 Balloon guy

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 09:12 AM

He expected a bigger change of heart after 9-11 from Bush.

He was disappointed.
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#56 Balloon guy

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 09:14 AM

View Postmrdannyg, on 19 April 2013 - 09:11 AM, said:

Three things. One, that you and most of this thread have left out - this is not Islam. Perhaps Islam-themed Extremism. No one called the Oklahoma bomber Christian without the word "extremist" or "nut" and you should do the same here.

Two - media attention is one thing. Of course it is getting attention, that's why they did it there. Media attention is different than willfully inciting terror. If people want to be scared, they should be a lot more scared of a poorly inspected factory near them blowing up, destroying an entire town, rather than a carefully planned attack that was designed more for attention than actual damage.

Three - like Scram, you're pointing to past events and racism to determine probability. Not the worst way to do it, I'll admit. Probability is a lot less than certainty though, and you need to be goddamn certain to make the assertions that you and millions of others have made in the past 48 hours. To do so with any less than certainty is the kind of deep-seated and severely dangerous racism that you guys love to pretend is in your past (except Scram, who denies nothing).

More likely this is the reason he isn't called a Christian:


In the 2001 book American Terrorist, McVeigh stated that he did not believe in Hell and that science is his religion
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#57 Balloon guy

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 09:17 AM

Danny,

Why do you want us to be 'fair and balanced' towards a religion that mostly teaches hatred for everyone not them and that dying in jihad is a good thing?


Quote

80% of mosques in America are preaching hatred of Jews and Christians and the necessity to ultimately impose Islamic rule…


Quote

A random survey of 100 representative mosques in the U.S. was conducted to measure the correlation between Sharia adherence and dogma calling for violence against non-believers. Of the 100 mosques surveyed, 51% had texts on site rated as severely advocating violence; 30% had texts rated as moderately advocating violence; and 19% had no violent texts at all. Mosques that presented as Sharia adherent were more likely to feature violence-positive texts on site than were their non-Sharia-adherent counterparts. In 84.5% of the mosques, the imam recommended studying violence-positive texts. The leadership at Sharia-adherent mosques was more likely to recommend that a worshipper study violence-positive texts than leadership at non-Sharia-adherent mosques. Fifty-eight percent of the mosques invited guest imams known to promote violent jihad. The leadership of mosques that featured violence-positive literature was more likely to invite guest imams who were known to promote violent jihad than was the leadership of mosques that did not feature violence-positive literature on mosque premises.

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#58 timwakefield

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 09:49 AM

View Postmrdannyg, on 19 April 2013 - 09:11 AM, said:

Three - like Scram, you're pointing to past events and racism to determine probability. Not the worst way to do it, I'll admit. Probability is a lot less than certainty though, and you need to be goddamn certain to make the assertions that you and millions of others have made in the past 48 hours. To do so with any less than certainty is the kind of deep-seated and severely dangerous racism that you guys love to pretend is in your past (except Scram, who denies nothing).

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying here but....they're fucking Chechnyan Muslims. This has now been established.

This* was of course already assumed to be likely (not certain, but likely), which we can understand by some simple math. I believe this is your main point/gripe, but I can't tell if you're also still questioning their religion. Anyways back to math: count major terrorist attacks or attempted attacks in the West in recent years, then count how many were by Muslims. It was made further likely by examining their method (bombs) and their target (random civilians).

To be clear, by "this" I mean that they are radical Islamists. They're not just regular Muslims, on whom the jury is still out in my admittedly xenophobic opinion. They are fundamentalist jihadist radicalized Islamists.
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#59 mrdannyg

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 11:09 AM

View PostBalloon guy, on 19 April 2013 - 09:14 AM, said:

More likely this is the reason he isn't called a Christian:


In the 2001 book American Terrorist, McVeigh stated that he did not believe in Hell and that science is his religion

I don't doubt that McVeigh was not a Christian. I'm not sure how a book released 6 years after the fact is in any way relevant to the media coverage at the time.

View PostBalloon guy, on 19 April 2013 - 09:17 AM, said:

Danny,

Why do you want us to be 'fair and balanced' towards a religion that mostly teaches hatred for everyone not them and that dying in jihad is a good thing?

lol. read the Bible lately? Sharia law is no more violent or hateful than the Bible. "All liars, as well as those who are fearful or unbelieving, will be cast into "the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone."

View Posttimwakefield, on 19 April 2013 - 09:49 AM, said:

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying here but....they're fucking Chechnyan Muslims. This has now been established.

This* was of course already assumed to be likely (not certain, but likely), which we can understand by some simple math. I believe this is your main point/gripe, but I can't tell if you're also still questioning their religion. Anyways back to math: count major terrorist attacks or attempted attacks in the West in recent years, then count how many were by Muslims. It was made further likely by examining their method (bombs) and their target (random civilians).

To be clear, by "this" I mean that they are radical Islamists. They're not just regular Muslims, on whom the jury is still out in my admittedly xenophobic opinion. They are fundamentalist jihadist radicalized Islamists.

You called them Chechnyan Muslims. They are radicalists/extremists who happen to be Muslim. Calling them Muslim without qualifying that they are not typical of their religion is wrong.

You're right - if we use history as a guide (highly questionable) and only consider attacks against random citizens with explosives (also questionable), the probability was in favour of them being extremist Muslims. Last I checked, in your country, you aren't suspect to suspect very large groups of people in that manner. Think about how many visibly Muslim people (worth pointing out that these guys would not even have been visibly Muslim to just about anyone) are cast under suspicion by thoughts like this. Now think about how many (all of them) were completely innocent. Now think about if it is fair that these people were significantly harmed by your suspicion (hint: they were). I guess you might think that is fair if you think Muslims in general are a violent or hateful people, but it might be worth remembering that there's a few billion people in this world who would view Christians and Americans as a lot more hateful, violent and scary than Muslims, and Americans are the only group that views the actions of an extremely small number of extremists as a daily threat.

*not including Arizona.
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#60 BigDMcGee

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 11:11 AM

View Posttimwakefield, on 19 April 2013 - 09:49 AM, said:

. Anyways back to math: count major terrorist attacks or attempted attacks in the West in recent years, then count how many were by Muslims. It was made further likely by examining their method (bombs) and their target (random civilians).


Well, let me take a point of contention here. Are spree killings considered terrorist attacks? IF not, why not? Something like the Aurora shooting was explicitly done to create terror. If that killer had been muslim acting on his own, and not a white kid acting on his own, I'm certain the media description of it would be a terrorist attack, and not a "spree killing"

I'm not saying that radicalized Muslim terrorists aren't a threat, and there aren't extremely organized terrorist cells. But this specific killing, strikes me much more like what is labeled a spree killing, done by the severely mentally ill, than it does an organized terrorist plot. I just think it's curious that the ideologies of those who commit the act change what the act is labeled.


I could be proven wrong, in the coming weeks, this could be the act of a more organized greater group, but I would bet against it.
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