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For Those Who Think The Stimulus Had No Effect


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#21 CaneBrain

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 06:51 AM

Don't worry Bob, clear thinkers who pay attention understand comparing a global meltdown to a couple mini recessions is the last refuge of people with their head in the sand.
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#22 akoff

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 07:09 AM

View PostFCP Bob, on 16 October 2012 - 06:09 AM, said:

As I've posted before this recession was caused by a major financial bubble and financial bubble recessions are the worst kind and the recovery from them is different than from a recession caused by high interest rates such as the Reagan Recession was. The last major one in the US was the Great Depression.

This is an excellent article from Reinhart & Rogoff on financial bubble recessions and how the US recovery from this one mirrors past ones in the US and in other countries.

http://www.bloomberg...-different.html

the Obama spending spree still has to be paid for...i don't think you can compare this with any other time in history because of the debt load. I don't think the data they are representing is near as transparent as they want you to think it is.

I don't see another World War coming to shake things up like WW2 did for FDR ...but i guess i shouldn't cut BHO and the rest of his thieves short

My opinion is it will take another 20 years for all of this to shake itself out and another generation after that to get it under control - at that point it will be obvious how big of mistake BHO and crew have made.

paying the bills for this mess is going to take a lot of pain.
"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America 's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the US Government cannot pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. Increasing America 's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that, "the buck stops here.' Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."
~ Senator Barack H. Obama

#23 JustDoIt

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 01:44 PM

View Postakoff, on 16 October 2012 - 07:09 AM, said:

the Obama spending spree still has to be paid for...i don't think you can compare this with any other time in history because of the debt load. I don't think the data they are representing is near as transparent as they want you to think it is.

I don't see another World War coming to shake things up like WW2 did for FDR ...but i guess i shouldn't cut BHO and the rest of his thieves short

My opinion is it will take another 20 years for all of this to shake itself out and another generation after that to get it under control - at that point it will be obvious how big of mistake BHO and crew have made.

paying the bills for this mess is going to take a lot of pain.

I think this is one point that we all can agree on.
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#24 custom36

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 04:47 PM

View PostJustDoIt, on 16 October 2012 - 01:44 PM, said:

I think this is one point that we all can agree on.

No.

#25 Balloon guy

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 06:27 PM

As long as we figure a way to tax the rich enough, then no one who makes under $250,000 a year will ever have any of their money go towards interest on the debt!
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#26 akoff

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 04:02 AM

View PostJustDoIt, on 16 October 2012 - 01:44 PM, said:

I think this is one point that we all can agree on.

View Postcustom36, on 16 October 2012 - 04:47 PM, said:

No.

we can't agree there is going to be a lot of pain in eliminating 15 trillion in debt? when you look up on a sunny day and see blue sky, what color do you think it is?
"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America 's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the US Government cannot pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. Increasing America 's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that, "the buck stops here.' Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."
~ Senator Barack H. Obama

#27 JustDoIt

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 07:57 AM

View Postakoff, on 17 October 2012 - 04:02 AM, said:

we can't agree there is going to be a lot of pain in eliminating 15 trillion in debt? when you look up on a sunny day and see blue sky, what color do you think it is?

I think I was agreeing.
Anger is an acid that can do more harm to the vessel in which it is stored than to anything on which it is poured.

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#28 custom36

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 12:01 PM

View Postakoff, on 17 October 2012 - 04:02 AM, said:

we can't agree there is going to be a lot of pain in eliminating 15 trillion in debt? when you look up on a sunny day and see blue sky, what color do you think it is?

I missed that you added emphasis. I thought you meant the whole post. My bad.

#29 Balloon guy

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 03:08 PM

Well we can see a good example of democrat stimulus and the effect it is having here

Cliffs:

The plants building parts for Chevy Volt are paying employees to stand around and play board games because there is no sales of those crap cars but the tax dollars to fund them needs to be spent...so come in and chill all day while getting union wages.
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#30 colonel Feathers

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 07:47 PM

View PostJustDoIt, on 17 October 2012 - 07:57 AM, said:

I think I was agreeing.
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#31 akoff

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 02:28 AM

View PostBalloon guy, on 19 October 2012 - 03:08 PM, said:

Well we can see a good example of democrat stimulus and the effect it is having here

Cliffs:

The plants building parts for Chevy Volt are paying employees to stand around and play board games because there is no sales of those crap cars but the tax dollars to fund them needs to be spent...so come in and chill all day while getting union wages.

Hard to believe sales are slower than expected in a plant that produces a product for a gimmick car that has virtually no demand…who could have seen this coming??

Sadly this is just one of many and not even the worst, this plant seems to have a real product, even if nobody wants it and people who actually care…so that is a least refreshing. Maybe we can get these people to work together to turn the propellers at the nearest wind farm instead of creating batteries!! It seems that they would both have a similar effect.
"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America 's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the US Government cannot pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. Increasing America 's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that, "the buck stops here.' Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."
~ Senator Barack H. Obama

#32 Pot Odds RAC

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 10:57 AM

I'm confused. Was it a Stimulus or a Bail Out?

For the record, I have been consistent in stating that I was Philosophically against the Stimulus (especially for the Auto Companies), but recognized that Reality was getting getting in the way of my Philosophy. At the time I said it was preferable to a hard crash that would have resulted in no Government action. Government action is supposed to avoid or result from a Market Failure. And 4 years ago there was a clear Market Failure. I did not and do not feel that the Government should have owned any part of any company as a result. Furthermore, the Government Action should not be evaluated based solely (nor even primarily) on the direct dollar payback from the "loans". The Government isn't in the business of profiting from their policies. The Quantitative analysis of Public Policy must go deeper than just trying to profit from an "investment".

Also I don't know why Obama gets to claim credit for TARP (nor criticize Congress for leaving Washington to campaign) since he scoffed at McCain's offer to suspend the campaigning to return to Washington to work on TARP.




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