TrueAce13, on 27 July 2012 - 12:47 PM, said:
you have said many time, "if we check-raise, and villain jams on us, we can fold knowing we are way behind" or w/e you want to state. How is this not turning our hand into a bluff. All we are doing is putting more $ out there w/ LITTLE information and HOPE to check it down. WHEN WE CAN JUST PUT 4k in the pot and figure out the same stuff! Jesus. Look at sizing, timing tells, other things. You are so ****ing narrow minded.And jesus, please enlighten the community why c/f is the best play. Ya, lets just fold top pair decent kicker. 6 handed. on a coordinated board.I wish I was as true to my word as Donk and could quit posting in this thread b/c you will never change your view on this hand (which is completely flawed), but maybeeeee you can figure it out!OH, and for other people reading this thread. I really think reading Donk's posts about this hand is the complete nuts and is really good stuff.The interesting part of the hand is the turn play
I'm not sure I ever said the c/r is not a bluff. I don't know where you got that. I think I am one of the few who is open to the notion that we are likely betting here from behind. Nevertheless, I have stated repeatedly that getting the opponent to fold the flop is neither the primary goal, nor the primary expectation.I guess you must be an onlne player. You have mentioned timing tells a few times. I can tell you that timing tells mean very little in live play and are more likely to be a reverse tell than an actual one. That being said, we don't have a lot to go by as far as behavior and tells in this hand. Yes we have bet size, but I don't think that is necessarily much to go on. Maybe you have reading bet size down cold, so i guess for you, and your kreskin-like ilk, maybe you can weak-play this hand and always know what's going on just based on that. For the rest of us, the c/r flop accomplishes the task of making the rest of our decisions in this hand a lot easier.As for c/f, I'm not sure that is the best play. I think I still like c/r more since that actually gives me a chance to win the hand. But c/f has merit above and beyon c/c if we intend to check the turn, because we can't expect to improve sufficiently enough to be able to make an easy and good decision on the turn. So we are putting 4K in the pot just hoping our opponent lifts his foot off the gas. We don't have a particularly good reason to believe he will.As far as changing my mind is concerned, I'll do so when I get some good analysis that counters mine. While I don't necessarily think any play in this istuation is horrible, I stand by my assertion that c/r is the better EV play because it gives us the best chance of winning the hand from behind and gives us a slightly better chance of winning the hand from ahead.So you say you think Donk's posts are just dreamy. I, for one, am shocked. I never believed bromance was a real thing, but I'm starting to.