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#281 Jordan

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 03:38 PM

View PostJordan, on 14 August 2012 - 03:30 PM, said:

You think you're line is right/optimal. You're wrong. You don't care. Great. Neither do I. Good day and good riddance. I'm done responding. GL.
ldo

#282 Gallo

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 03:56 PM

I can't wait to find out that it's Jonas or Mark.
QUOTE (no not baxter @ Monday, February 9th, 2009, 11:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
ya srsly why not just make a 2 hour dinner break so ppl can go to outback and get a fkn bloomin onion


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#283 akashenk

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 05:18 PM

View PostJordan, on 14 August 2012 - 03:30 PM, said:

CR to fold the flop is just so laughably bad it's just not even worth trying to explain to someone why it's bad after you been so adament it's a good play.You CR the flop to induce from draws or some stupid hand. Like Looshle said, this happens very rarely. Normally they just fold and you prevent them from continuing to bluff, which is bad.You are rarely losing to a better Ace. This is because your stack size pre-flop is going to receive a 3bet from AJ+ almost always, especially when playing 6max.Now I've gone against my own, "not feeding the troll" schtick, but I mean, really else can or needs be said that hasn't already been said.You think you're line is right/optimal. You're wrong. You don't care. Great. Neither do I. Good day and good riddance. I'm done responding. GL.
Thanks for the post, Jordan. You actually brought up one point which has not been raised in this thread to this point, at least not in my recollection... that being the question of the likelyhood our opponent having a hand like AJ through AK. I don't think I agree with your assumption that the button would always raise with these hands in this situation, but I would agree that this is by no means a certainty. If your read on the flop is that they don't likely have a hand like this, then I would raise other questions about the wisdom of c/c the flop. First, as to the inducing bluff scenario... I have to assume you disagree with just about all of the posters here and would at least call most bets from our opponent on the turn. After all, if your aim is to induce a bluff, how would folding on the turn work into that strategy?Now, if your read is that they don't have a big ace, then that pretty much leaves thre options. They either flopped big (set, two pair, etc.), or they have some sort of draw.. or they have very little (maybe middle pair or top pair small kicker. So my question to you, now that you have ruled out the big A hands is... what do you do on the turn when our opponent bets? Certainly calling would make sense if there's reason to believe they have that small A. But calling at all when they have a monster, or just calling when they are on a draw would seem to be mistakes. So, I will ask for what seems to be the thousandth time, what is your read on the turn, now that you have made this precise read on the flop that they don't have a big A? What "logic" do you use to make your decision.

#284 akashenk

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 05:20 PM

View PostTrueAce13, on 14 August 2012 - 03:37 PM, said:

and...
You shouldn't tax your brain using such big words, trueace. Now that donk is saving some money and feeding you that lower caliber dogfood, you need to conserve energy.

#285 RDog

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 05:55 PM

I personally believe, that U.S. Americans, are unable to do so, because uh, some, people out there, in our nation don’t have maps. I believe that our education like such as in South Africa, and the Iraq, everywhere like such as…and, I believe they should uh, our education over here, in the U.S. should help the U.S. or should help South Africa, and should help the Iraq and Asian countries so we will be able to build up our future, for us.Edit: Don't let the haters get you down. #teamakashenk

#286 TrueAce13

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 06:12 PM

omg, rdog making the comeback!
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#287 donk4life

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 06:27 PM

lol@ the big ace argument not being brought up. are you ****ing serious. that was establish on one of the first pages of this thread. yes, you can rule out AK, and probably AQ, but AJ is borderline. You can also rule out weaker aces with the exception of maybe a10 and a suited a9So on the flop you have his range as bluffs, AJ, sets, two pair, and draws. And yes, you have to include hands like KQ, KQss, QJss, J10ss, etc. That's a really ****ing wide range and c/ring against that range puts you in the shittiest spot. Open folding would make more sense in that spot then c/r.On the turn once he bets again, and bets that big, his range becomes very limited because he's never betting that big with a bluff. So in the end it becomes more of a math problem which is really ****ing easy to do. No one said we're folding to every bet on the turn. But unless the math says otherwise, folding to this kind of bet on the turn may be best.You seriously have reading comprehension issues.I don't even remember the ****ing hand anymore

View Postakashenk, on 02 August 2012 - 06:44 AM, said:

I don't mind folding out hands we beat.

#288 Balloon guy

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 06:33 PM

View PostLucero123, on 24 July 2012 - 05:08 AM, said:

Hi guys,New to tournament poker, and need your views on a hand that i felt I really misplayed. Have no idea how to copy paste from HH so here it goes.No stats avaliable cause I dont have PT or HM on this computer yet, all five players are pretty tight and straightforward and I have been picking up pots fairly easy last 30 min or so.Blinds: 600 - 1200Hero/donk/me: 30KButton: Just has me covered6-max table,We are in the money. Im on cutoff and its folded to me. AdTdHero: 2600Button: CallSB/BB: FoldsFlop: Ac 9d 7cHero: Check (Dont want to bet/call here, but check feels wrong for some reason)Button: Bet 4K into 7KMe: callTurn: Ac 9d 7c 6dHero: checkButton: bet 12KNow what?
Call, hope for a diamond.Or a ten.If you miss, look down at your chips, then check and act like you missed.If you hit your flush, jam it in.
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#289 JubilantLankyLad

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 06:45 PM

Holy shit.
there were no special effects, no special effects.

#290 Balloon guy

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 06:49 PM

Sometimes you got to just explain things simply and it all becomes clear.
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#291 Gallo

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 07:41 PM

View PostRDog, on 14 August 2012 - 05:55 PM, said:

FYP
QUOTE (no not baxter @ Monday, February 9th, 2009, 11:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
ya srsly why not just make a 2 hour dinner break so ppl can go to outback and get a fkn bloomin onion


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#292 colonel Feathers

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 07:50 PM

View PostBalloon guy, on 14 August 2012 - 06:33 PM, said:

Call, hope for a diamond.Or a ten.If you miss, look down at your chips, then check and act like you missed.If you hit your flush, jam it in.
These sought of optimal plays, fly over the head of your average poster on these sought of forums, so the best line to take, is none at all.
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#293 Jordan

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 10:29 PM

Akahshssnksnsodnananao,I'm gonna use "logic" and not answer any of your lol questions. GL.

#294 akashenk

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 03:21 AM

View Postdonk4life, on 14 August 2012 - 06:27 PM, said:

lol@ the big ace argument not being brought up. are you ****ing serious. that was establish on one of the first pages of this thread. yes, you can rule out AK, and probably AQ, but AJ is borderline. You can also rule out weaker aces with the exception of maybe a10 and a suited a9So on the flop you have his range as bluffs, AJ, sets, two pair, and draws. And yes, you have to include hands like KQ, KQss, QJss, J10ss, etc. That's a really ****ing wide range and c/ring against that range puts you in the shittiest spot. Open folding would make more sense in that spot then c/r.On the turn once he bets again, and bets that big, his range becomes very limited because he's never betting that big with a bluff. So in the end it becomes more of a math problem which is really ****ing easy to do. No one said we're folding to every bet on the turn. But unless the math says otherwise, folding to this kind of bet on the turn may be best.You seriously have reading comprehension issues.I don't even remember the ****ing hand anymore
Ahh, donk, you are truly a marvel . Once again you have made an unsubstantiated claim "the big ace argument not being brought up. are you ****ing serious. that was establish on one of the first pages of this thread" Now I'm not prepared to just say you are wrong, but I don't remember. Rather than just throwing something out there and requiring us all to just believe you...I guess because you're so experienced and successful... why don't you point out exactly which page/posts brought up the idea that we don't have to worry about the villain having a big Ace here.Now, if that argument WAS made, I would pose a single question. Our opponent FLATTED the button with 99. I don't know what the chip stacks were in the blinds.. maybe our opponent thought he was inducing a raise from one of them, or whatever. But clearly, by flatting the preflop raise, he was also inviting going to the flop with as manny as 3 other players. He did this with 99. Why should we assume that he wouldn't have done the same with any other hand, particular ones as precarious as AJ/AQ... even AK.You said: "So on the flop you have his range as bluffs, AJ, sets, two pair, and draws. And yes, you have to include hands like KQ, KQss, QJss, J10ss, etc. That's a really ****ing wide range and c/ring against that range puts you in the shittiest spot. Open folding would make more sense in that spot then c/r."Why does c/r a wide range put you in a shitty spot? Do you see that in order to be convincing you can't just throw ideas out there... you have to defend them with some sort of evidence and logic.You said: "On the turn once he bets again, and bets that big, his range becomes very limited because he's never betting that big with a bluff. So in the end it becomes more of a math problem which is really ****ing easy to do. No one said we're folding to every bet on the turn. But unless the math says otherwise, folding to this kind of bet on the turn may be best."This is an interesting thing you have put forth here. You say, after we c/c, that our oponent is NEVER betting that big (I assume you are referring to the 12K he actually did bet) as a bluff. I suppose maybe one of you has finally decided to tackle the "bet-size-reading" claim you have been constantly been making. So, had he bet more, say 15K, or gone all in, or whatever, does that mean he is more likely to be bluffing... in other words, is there some % chance he is bluffing which is greater than NEVER if he had bet more? Or had he bet less... again is he MORE likely to be bluffing.. since of course, he is NEVER bluffing with a 12K bet? It would seem to me, that this bet-size reading skill which you and others have touted is simply the idea that our opponent would not bet the turn at all on a bluff. Maybe you have eliminated this as a possibility. I simply cannot. Players I play against regularly do not go around betting a wide range on the flop and then always clamming up on the turn in the face of their opponent slow playing a coordinated board such as this, whether its this point in the tournmanet or any other.And, by the way, the only reason this became a "math" problem, is because a diamond hit. There was pretty much no other card that could have hit the turn where this would have become a math problem. So the justification for you tossing 4K into the pot on a pre-flop call is that maybe one of 10 cards could hit the turn and then maybe our opponent will be so kind as to give us odds to make a call which is mathematically correct from a pot-size standpoint, but still unlikley to hit? And, in the end, you're saying we're calling this bet (6K, according to irishguy), because it makes mathematical sense. How is this entire line of thinking, where you are putting in a total of 12K in order to get to the river so superior to my line of thinking where you are putting in 10K to get to the river?You said: "You seriously have reading comprehension issues."How so? I respond to every one of your and other's posts by going point by point. You guys rarely address anything I say directly. Which pattern would be more indicative of reading comprehension issues?You said: "I don't even remember the ****ing hand anymore"Its on page one if you need to refresh your memory.

#295 akashenk

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 03:22 AM

View PostJordan, on 14 August 2012 - 10:29 PM, said:

Akahshssnksnsodnananao,I'm gonna use "logic" and not answer any of your lol questions. GL.
I agree Jordon, it is very logical to presume that people who have nothing to offer will choose not to offer anything.

#296 Jordan

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 03:24 AM

View Postakashenk, on 15 August 2012 - 03:21 AM, said:

Our opponent FLATTED the button with 99. I don't know what the chip stacks were in the blinds..You said: "I don't even remember the ****ing hand anymore"Its on page one if you need to refresh your memory.
troll gonna troll.

#297 akashenk

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 03:26 AM

View Postcolonel Feathers, on 14 August 2012 - 07:50 PM, said:

These sought of optimal plays, fly over the head of your average poster on these sought of forums, so the best line to take, is none at all.
I agree that calling the flop is very much a close your eyes and hope for the best strategy. This sort of play certainly has its benefits if you are someone who doesn't want to do any thinking or are willing to make a crucial mistakes a fairly large percentage of the time. And it also has its advocates... particularly on this board.

#298 akashenk

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 03:40 AM

View PostGallo, on 14 August 2012 - 07:41 PM, said:

FYP
Gallo.. you haven't been "in" since your first post. Given the nature of that post (#231) , I had high hopes that you weren't another one of these clowns. I spent some time trying to respect your appearance here by giving a serious response, and you have repayed me by ignoring my response and joining in with the circus. You may be more "seasoned" for lack of a better word than some of the others posting here.. but it doesn't appear you have benefitted from the lessons those years have offered.

#299 akashenk

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 03:44 AM

View Postakashenk, on 15 August 2012 - 03:22 AM, said:

I agree Jordon, it is very logical to presume that people who have nothing to offer will choose not to offer anything.

View PostJordan, on 15 August 2012 - 03:24 AM, said:

troll gonna troll.
Correction, you have nonsensical palindromic sentence fragments to offer, so at least you have that going for you.

#300 Jordan

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 03:45 AM






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