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Folded Set 0.10/0.25 Poker Stars


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#1 nikobell4711

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 06:12 AM

Hi everybody,here is a hand I played some days ago on Poker Stars. I’m very interested in what your opinions are on how I played the hand and how you would.PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comCO ($6.52)Button ($25.90)SB ($27.16)BB ($27.85)UTG ($26.26)UTG+1 ($10.92)MP1 ($27.20)Hero (MP2) ($25)Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 6 :club:, 6 :ts3 folds, Hero calls $0.25, 1 fold, Button calls $0.25, SB calls $0.15, BB checksFlop: ($1) 6 :qh, 10 :4h, 5 :5c (4 players)SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $0.25, Button calls $0.25, SB calls $0.25, 1 foldTurn: ($1.75) 9 :3h (3 players)SB checks, Hero checks, Button bets $0.75, SB raises to $2.75, Hero foldsI had no reads or history so far. HM stats (VPIP/PFR/AGF/Hands) where:SB: 15/9/3.0/109Button: 11/6/0.8/100I have two questions for you:1. Should I bet more on the flop with my set to get value from the straight and flush draws? With three opponents I felt not so comfortable to play a big pot.2. Was the fold on turn mathematically correct? The pot gave me 1.9 to 1 as it was my turn. But I needed 3.6 to 1 for my 10 outs (full house or quads) vs. possible flush or straight. With the check-raise from the SB I put him on a flush. Should I calculate the implied Odds here to make a call profitable? How is the math for that?

#2 droberts

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 06:54 AM

dont limp in.. raise preflop.on the flop if i limped in im betting minimum of .75.. but im always betting full pot.. also i wouldnt fold the turn.. they could be raising with 2 pair.. atleast call and decide on river..im curious as to why in the world u dont want to play a big pot with 3 people on the flop with the second nuts.. i mean do u think one of them have pocket Tens.. i would say thats almost never

#3 droberts

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 06:56 AM

also why did u only bet minimum with a set on such a super drawy board? thats like suicide

#4 fighter

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 12:04 PM

View Postnikobell4711, on 11 June 2012 - 06:12 AM, said:

Hi everybody,here is a hand I played some days ago on Poker Stars. I’m very interested in what your opinions are on how I played the hand and how you would.PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comCO ($6.52)Button ($25.90)SB ($27.16)BB ($27.85)UTG ($26.26)UTG+1 ($10.92)MP1 ($27.20)Hero (MP2) ($25)Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 6 :club:, 6 :ts3 folds, Hero calls $0.25, 1 fold, Button calls $0.25, SB calls $0.15, BB checksFlop: ($1) 6 :qh, 10 :4h, 5 :5c (4 players)SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $0.25, Button calls $0.25, SB calls $0.25, 1 foldTurn: ($1.75) 9 :3h (3 players)SB checks, Hero checks, Button bets $0.75, SB raises to $2.75, Hero foldsI had no reads or history so far. HM stats (VPIP/PFR/AGF/Hands) where:SB: 15/9/3.0/109Button: 11/6/0.8/100I have two questions for you:1. Should I bet more on the flop with my set to get value from the straight and flush draws? With three opponents I felt not so comfortable to play a big pot.2. Was the fold on turn mathematically correct? The pot gave me 1.9 to 1 as it was my turn. But I needed 3.6 to 1 for my 10 outs (full house or quads) vs. possible flush or straight. With the check-raise from the SB I put him on a flush. Should I calculate the implied Odds here to make a call profitable? How is the math for that?
limping preflop can be fine, however I don't recommend it for beginners as it puts them in the wrong frame of mind on how to approach the game.1. If you are not comfortable getting all the money in with a set on the flop, I don't think No limit holdem is for you.I'm not trying to be a douche but there is litterally only one hand that beats you. If you are not comfortable placing all your money into the middle with the 2nd nuts when you are only 100bb deep, then you should move down in stakes or try a different poker variant.As it stands flop bet needs to be at least 75c. However I would be more incline to just bet the whole pot.2. On the surface it looks like a good fold, however it is hard to know where you stand in the hand since you only bet the minimum into a limped pot on the flop and then checked. The person behind you bet less then half pot after only calling a min bet on the flop. SB i might just be making a move on the pot. Which would be a good play on his part because it seems very obvious that neither you or the button are interested in the pot.I don't think trying to work out if you have the odds to call here for a set is a good idea because you don't close the betting on the turn. Calling and then having the button raise will happen often enough that you will probably never see enough rivers to justify trying to spike a set and get paid. Also since you played the hand so passively on every street, if you hit a full house on the river I doubt anyone will give you much action if they have a flush.

#5 KingJames

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 04:14 PM

Good post, fighter.Nikobell, I'd recommend reading this as a really great intro to micro nl cash games.http://www.gamblingsystem.biz/books/2p2NL6max.pdf
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#6 answer20

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 04:34 PM

There are so many ways to look at this hand ... at this level you can really do no wrong to 'test' how hands like these play out so you can learn from them for use at a higher level.PreFlop: Nothing wrong with a limp here, but also nothing wrong with a min or slightly bigger raise since you are the first one to take action. 66s might be a touch too small for this since you are really only looking for a set here ... so a limp will help build a pot and chase those 'implied' odds when you do hit your sets.Flop: $.25 is just asking for trouble and certainly doesn't get you any 'good' information from anyone behind whether they call or raise you AND every draw is priced into just caling. 2x or 3x will let the others know you are here to stay in the hand ... so you should take any raises here a little more seriously. Calls will indicate 10xs, draws and maybe even some overcards. Raises will indicate stronger draws, 2 pair, 10s with high kickers and maybe pair combo hands. It is very unlikely you are behind right here except maybe to the button ... the blinds would (should) have raised you pre-Flop since they were OOP and to try to take the pot right there. Your really dont want to see any 4,7,8,9 or heart on the Turn. A 4x or 5x sized bet will only attract the best draws and 2 pair but would be a nice way to take the pot right now if you don't want to deal with multiple opponents. A small win is much better than a large loss ... or a 'fearful' laydown to scare card on the Turn.Turn: Since you have played the hand passively, a check here is fine to continue the 'trap' and now you face a decision. You are good to consider the SB with 2 pair, straight or small flush or maybe a large 10 with a high flush kicker. You also can give SB credit that he knows your stacks are the same size if things escalate here with you or the Button so the re-raise should not be taken lightly. i would not put the SB on a high flush since that hand 'wants' other hands to hit the River for some value.You really don't want to consider another raise here and with the BB to act behnd you could see one anyway ... I don't really mind calling or folding. Although the card was a heart, it also was a gut-shot card if someone hit a straight ... but you really dont mind someone having 2 pair here and is scared of the four-flush hitting. Just remember that if you smooth call here it will send up large smoke signals that you have a 'made' hand and you might not get any value from any River bet ... plus the only 'great' card for you is a 5 if you are going against 2-pair opponents if you want to bet a full house.Go ahead and call sometimes to see what happens and experience being in the hand. I wouldn't really call any River bet of over $10 if the Button does smooth call. You are a bit of a monkey in the middle here ... good luck.

#7 mtdesmoines

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 08:18 PM

Never bet 1/4 pot on flop with bottom set and two people in. It's suicidal. .85 is a better bet here. I hate the argument that our fold on the turn is mathematically correct when we don't know what the villains hold. If they have a flush, then yes. If they have AhTx, then, no. And AhTx will call .25 on the flop a LOT, especially when they can turn for 1/8th of the pot.
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#8 SuperJon

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 08:26 PM

Of course AhTx will .25 on the flop, as would a ton of other hands. But how many of those hands will c/r the turn? Raising AhTx on the turn would be pretty stupid imo.

#9 Gobler_Poker

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 10:13 PM

Raise preflop, don't limp

#10 A K Q J Ts

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 10:20 PM

View PostGobler_Poker, on 19 November 2012 - 10:13 PM, said:

Raise preflop, don't limp

View PostGobler_Poker, on 19 November 2012 - 10:13 PM, said:

Raise preflop, don't limp

100% agree!

#11 SFAWFD

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 01:05 AM

As a Micro stakes player myself I will give you my thoughts.

First as been said you should raise here preflop. Sure you have a small pocket pair but, no one else has raised at this point. Raise, and if nothing else narrow the field. Doing this accomplishes a couple of things. First in narrows down the hands other people can have. (Yes even at the micro stakes.) 2nd, instead of playing 3-5 people post flop you will be either heads up or against 3 in most cases. This helps you a lot. If you miss your 6, since your raised you have now aquired bluff outs. Say someone calls your raise with a higher pocket pair 8-8 for instance the flop comes AK2. You bet he is going to fold 99% of the time and you picked up some free money. If you flop your set on an A high board you can assume they have an Ace anything and probably stack them off. Now if you just limp you can be up against anything no flop is safe period. At least raising you have a better idea where you are after the flop.


2nd why make a min raise here when you flopped the 2nd best hand. Yes this has been a big point from people but it's a great point. Raise here on such a draw heavy board. Make people pay improper odds to chase there straights and flushes. If you do this over the long run you will make money. There is no iffs ands or buts. If you do it, over the long run, you will make money period. It's the beauty of math in poker.

You have to get more aggressive with good hands to be successful, I'm not saying go manic mode, but, when you flop big hands you have to bet and make other people make mistakes. Yes they will time to time get lucky and win hands. However, in the long run this will make a +EV player.

I find very little wrong with your turn play. The re raise is to large for you to call with no reads or history with the villains. However, you should have never been in that position to start with.

Moral of the post.

Make +EV plays at all times and you will in the long run make a profit. Sure hand for hand you might get unlucky, that isn't the way to look at it. You have to look at it as, I made him make mistakes he got lucky I played the hand better than my opponent. If I do this same thing 100 times. I'm going to make money.
QUOTE(chrozzo @ Sunday, December 2nd, 2007, 11:05 PM)  
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#12 W1zardahAus

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 01:27 AM

You made the wrong bet on the flop, but the correct fold on the turn. That's a serious lay down that I'd have trouble doing. I don't usually raise with pocket pairs pre flop either, unless 7 - 8 and up. But that's just me. If I hit a set and see potential of someone making a straight or a flush, then I bet aggressively and make them pay for the privilege to hit their hand (as said in Phil Gordons little green book) . Put the pressure on them, don't give them easy decisions. If you know you're ahead, and there's potential of a flush / straight being made, try take the pot down right there. (that's what I'd do)
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