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Pahwm: Aa On Bb


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#1 oldfriendbear

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 12:00 AM

I was gonna do a PAHWM at 2+2, but here goes. Never posted on these forums, so I don't know the jargon or math that well. I had no idea what the (x/y/z) numbers were besides the first "vpip" so this is new to me. Feel free to help there as well.10c/20c home game. $20-$50 buy-in, 6 handed. 5 handed for the mentioned hand. Fairly friendly but competent players. Social alcohol present, nobody's spewey drunk (yet). All players in their 20s, most with families and have stable but not great paying jobs. No pros at the table. Not too much bluffing or aggression for that matter. The ONLY significant raise that I recall is when I rivered a nut flush, got bet into; I raised 3.5x and the villian (SB in mentioned hand) called. The table usually doesn't take into account how much is in the pot, so I see myself going to the river the most and "drawing out" because the pot-odds are there due to the comparitively small bet.Reads* BTN($43): Bought in for 50, lost it, rebout 30 more. Stuck but compitent. Loves donkbetting a pot-sized-bet especially into raised pots on flop in EP. Hasn't been running well and a bit flustered for getting called down light. (50/10/3)SB($45): POW. In for 60 Not all that comfortable with cash games, especially in a semi-compitent line-up. Money is tight for him, only one to buy in for less than $50, bought in for $30 (then rebought for another 30??). I've been at the river 4 times against him in previous games, check called all 4x. Doesn't really initiate action but sure does call a lot. (66/0/0.5)Hero($80): Bought for 50. Is known to be a serious and experienced player, others are more recreational. Was hella bluffy the previous game, and that reputation followed him to this game. Loves to draw because the pot-odds are usually there. I felt a slight "I'm gonna get you" vibe from SB, he wants to outplay/outcard me?? Playing somewhat snug today, (33/20/1.5) Has shown down twice today, once with TT for a 3 bet to which everyone folded, then the rivered nut flush. Other than that, I never show my hands.5 handed.UTG, CO, BTN all call, SB completes. ($1.00)Hero is on BB with :3h :4h.Hero raises to $2.20UTG, CO, BTN, SB all call $2.20. ($11.00)Flop :ts :5c :club:SB bets $4Hero raises to $16UTG smurks and says "who in their right mind is gonna call your $16?"UTG and CO fold.BTN cold calls $16SB completes $12 more. ($59.00)By now this was already the biggest pot of the night.Turn :5sSB checks, I check,BTN goes all in $24.50. ($83.50)SB says "I'm all in too" and shoves $26.00 ($109.50)I'm looking at $26 to win $135.50, So I need to be right a bit more than 1 in 5 times to be profitable? (Let me know if that's right) So obviously I'm behind right now, but to what and how many outs do I have? So against a made flush, I have 7 outs? Against a set I may have to discount :qh because that also pairs the board. How about non-spade 3's that would give me a wheel? Two remaining Aces? Board pair If both were going nuts with Kx two pair? What changes here if I am against 1 all in rather than 2 all ins? Someone teach me how to do the math on "partial outs" please? All comments welcome. Hopefully not all of them are tl;dr lol.

#2 donk4life

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 06:35 AM

I don't think I'd fold. It's a home game, and while you say these guys are competent I think that's a bit of stretch. Your aces may very well be good in this spot, and if not, you have outs and the odds to call.

View Postakashenk, on 02 August 2012 - 06:44 AM, said:

I don't mind folding out hands we beat.

#3 PocketAcesA5

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 06:37 AM

That`s a shitty spot. Looks like you`re up against a flush and well the other could be Kx of some sort. Could be a set also but it is a home game so I`ll give the second guy KQ max, lol. You got the Ace of spades though so you have to call. You`re right on the odds. You could also be against guys that are over rating KQ and Kx. Either way it`s a call and hope to catch a spade on the river if you are behind. I wouldn`t mind hearing people`s thoughts on the hand if you had AA without the ace of spades.
The real things to know is that folks will stand to lose more than they will to win. That’s the most important percentage there is. I mean, if they lose, they’re willin’ to lose everything. If they win, they’re usually satisfied to win enough to pay for dinner and a show. The best gamblers know that

#4 oldfriendbear

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 03:38 AM

Thanks for the replies. Results wise, I made a crying call mostly due to pot size. First villian had :club: :qh for nut straight, V2 had :3h :ts for third nut flush. I had 7 outs so 16.7% to hit, not getting enough odds. But then I bink the river with a :jh and rake the biggest pot of the night. Both of them rebought and tilted for the rest of the night which should have made my night even more profitable, but they were stupid-aggro against each other that I really couldn't find any more decent spots to hang on so I kinda stayed out of their way.donk, ya I think I told them that I was gonna start posting here so I didn't wanna be rude. They're knowledgeable beginners, they'd probably never want to go to a casino to play live but they make the game better-more profitable for me-that way.Pocket, if I had AA without the :4h, it would be a fold for me on the turn. It's a bit difficult to put myself in the same shoes with a different hand, pre and flop play would be about the same and say the villans would have the same cards. Turn play MAYBE I would bet, but if I put out $12-18, then re-raised in two spots would put me at $8-14 to pay off into a $120+ pot. I don't know much about RIO, but I'd have to pay that off knowing my hand is no good so checking I think is best on the turn, with or without :5c. I'd face the same action which would make the pot odds the same, take away the flush outs would make it prolly a fold. I thnk I've heard overplaying AA is the biggest flaw in a live player's arsenal, granted you MIGHT fold against 1 worse hand but against 2 all ins you gotta be drawing slim.

#5 answer20

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 08:12 AM

Well I have to say you didn't get much credit for either of your raises, eh? A $16 gut shot call on the Flop? ... for sure this was someone trying to get your goat with a flyer. Not that I havn't done this a time or 2, but this hand seems a bit 'out-of-sorts' for what you might explain as normal in your game. For a pre-Flop raiser to get called in 2 spots after check-raising the Flop means that they put you on air or are just coming after you ... neither of these guys are 'right' in calling the $16 unless they feel you have a history of ignoring the obvious (flush) or 3-barreling your bluffs (previous history, still can't call the gut-shot without a human factor involved).Only issue with your post is that you can't put your calling money into the pot odds, or at least I don't. You were calling 26 into 110, not 135, with one card to come. You can't win money that isn't in the pot yet ... so to speak. No, the math doesn't work, but at this level of stakes I think you are almost always putting in your money with the A-spade into a non-paired board. There is certainly no way of knowing that your 3s are dead already (which is the point of this guys $16 call) but just knowing most, if not all, of your spades are probably good and that your 'risk' is now limited to the calling price (no large side pot coming) ... the money should go in.You are fine in checking the Turn, but maybe not against 'better' players since they will take that as you check-raising the Flop with air in most cases, which may be what you wanted anyway for a trap. And you are now allowing them to draw for free if they want to ... or slow play the fact that they hit. I would probably only check the Turn with a set or the A-spade since I can still improve my hand. Good players will also not give you the opportunity to check-raise them a 2nd time and take the free card regardless of how the Turn came out ... they also will know you have to hit the River to win now as they (both in this case) have a 5-card made hand where you are more likely to have only a 3-card made hand at best here as you have played this hand like a set or over-pair so far.It would be interesting to see where the flush was in this case. If it was in the SB, he took a huge risk relying on you or other player to bet out so he could go all-in. From SB he could have got you to fold facing lower 'odds' since the 3rd guys money is not in there as of yet and you can't count on it when you decide ... although you probably call anyways with the A-spade. Perhaps not as often, but you still call more than 50% of the time with his stack size and the player behind you having a similar stack size. With an AA holding without the spade and this much aggression on all three streets you need to walk ... AND SHOW ... so that they know they 'got you' and perhaps any historical issues will now fade as well. Sounds like a nice game ... lets us know when a seat opens up ...




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