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Poll: Poll (18 member(s) have cast votes)

How should an addict like this be handled?

  1. The criminal justice system (6 votes [33.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 33.33%

  2. The medical system (10 votes [55.56%])

    Percentage of vote: 55.56%

  3. YOU SHOULD HAVE THOUGHT OF THAT BEFORE YOU TOOK THOSE DRUGS TOBY KEITHS AMERICA YES! (2 votes [11.11%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.11%

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#21 CaneBrain

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 11:39 AM

View PostBigDMcGee, on Thursday, April 26th, 2012, 11:55 AM, said:

I voted medical, as I think essentially what's ailing him is a brain disease, but I think it really depends what our goals are. Rehab has an incredibly shitty result rate. Or at least, a really high relapse rate. Conversely, Jail won't rehabilitate him.. it might break him, but it won't treat his addiction. If our goal is to ahve him stop acting like a degenerate and stop breaking into people's houses, I don't think there's an easy answer. Honestly, I think this is what religion is for. What Leaf needs is a cult. A deep and profound religious conversion, with a support group of crazy people monitoring and shaping his behavior at all times.
Making drug addicts wards of the church sounds great to me. We finally get something for that tax exempt status we grant them and they get a whole new spigot of people to save. Win-win.I both agree that Leaf deserves jail time (he stole) and that going to jail won't help him at all and will probably only exacerbate his criminality. Not a fun issue.
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#22 BigDMcGee

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 11:48 AM

yeah, I think that whole " deserves" jail time is at the heart of the issue. If our goal is to eliminate crime, I don't think the current penal system is the right model for it. Either we need to go hard core into rehabilitation, using prisons ( starting with juve) as a way of rehabilitating criminals, teaching them life skills, building them up as useful citizen. OR, if we are going to go the punishment model.. then we need to go all out, toss human rights out the window, and go china style.. making prison so horrible that it effectively scares people into not committing crimes, because the consequences are so wretched. But the half assed punitive prisons we have now are basically just social networking for criminals, and a way to apprentice from being a small time criminal into a hardened one, and hows that working out for us? Basically all these prisons are good for is keeping prisoners off the streets for a while so they can't commit crimes on free citizens.
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#23 hblask

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 05:25 PM

First step, give people access to safe means of altering their consciousness. Maybe you check into a clinic for the night, get high with a safe, tested drug, and go home.Second step, if someone still needs more, you give them medical treatment. If we didn't have such an aversion to people having fun in these Unapproved Ways, there would be a whole industry built around helping people who can't handle it.Third step, if someone still wants to steal and hurt other people, put them in jail.Altering your state should not be illegal. Harming others will ALWAYS be illegal.
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#24 AmScray

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 08:59 PM

View PostCaneBrain, on Thursday, April 26th, 2012, 11:39 AM, said:

going to jail won't help him at all and will probably only exacerbate his criminality.
Thats right most of the time but in his case, there will be a pretty significant support network. Even though nobody wants anything to do with him right now, he's still a pretty high profile person (at least as far as his place in history). Americans have always loved tearing people down as much we love a comeback story. Even if the money is gone (which it seems like it is), even if his acquaintances have abandoned him and all he has left is his family, even though he's pretty clearly at rock bottom right now, there's still going to be a lot of people out there really cheering for him.If he's smart, he parlays this into a lucrative career counseling professional athletes on substance abuse issues. He has a perspective that very few people can begin to comprehend. Do the Dr. Drew circuit, he could turn this into a lucrative career if he plays his cards right.The ideal situation would be that the Ryan Leaf story was written as it was so he could go on to help others. The worst case scenario is that his relationship with substances is lifelong, the pain of 'being Ryan Leaf' is just too much and he winds up kickin' it with Amy Winehouse and Whitney Houston.
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#25 BigDMcGee

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 11:01 PM

View PostAmScray, on Thursday, April 26th, 2012, 11:59 PM, said:

Thats right most of the time but in his case, there will be a pretty significant support network. Even though nobody wants anything to do with him right now, he's still a pretty high profile person (at least as far as his place in history). Americans have always loved tearing people down as much we love a comeback story. Even if the money is gone (which it seems like it is), even if his acquaintances have abandoned him and all he has left is his family, even though he's pretty clearly at rock bottom right now, there's still going to be a lot of people out there really cheering for him.If he's smart, he parlays this into a lucrative career counseling professional athletes on substance abuse issues. He has a perspective that very few people can begin to comprehend. Do the Dr. Drew circuit, he could turn this into a lucrative career if he plays his cards right.The ideal situation would be that the Ryan Leaf story was written as it was so he could go on to help others. The worst case scenario is that his relationship with substances is lifelong, the pain of 'being Ryan Leaf' is just too much and he winds up kickin' it with Amy Winehouse and Whitney Houston.
here's the thing, I've heard from a pretty reliable source who's a friend of the leaf family that Leaf is NOT busto... that he banked his signing bonus ( which was around 10 million) with friends of the family who are in fianance ( notice how different life is for the white quarterback as opposed to the black cornerback) and still has all that money, plus how ever much it's grown. He may not have access to it right now, or easy access to it... but he's not really at rock bottom either yet.
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#26 mk

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 10:01 AM

View PostBigDMcGee, on Friday, April 27th, 2012, 2:01 AM, said:

here's the thing, I've heard from a pretty reliable source who's a friend of the leaf family that Leaf is NOT busto... that he banked his signing bonus ( which was around 10 million) with friends of the family who are in fianance ( notice how different life is for the white quarterback as opposed to the black cornerback) and still has all that money, plus how ever much it's grown. He may not have access to it right now, or easy access to it... but he's not really at rock bottom either yet.
doesn't quite jib with the multiple burglaries jibe

#27 CaneBrain

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 10:39 AM

View Postmk, on Friday, April 27th, 2012, 2:01 PM, said:

doesn't quite jib with the multiple burglaries jibe
If it is in a trust he can't break that someone else controls.....
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#28 AmScray

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 11:06 AM

View Postmk, on Friday, April 27th, 2012, 10:01 AM, said:

doesn't quite jib with the multiple burglaries jibe
Kinda, but dope is weird like that. Chuck Negron (lead singer, Three Dog Night) talked about when he was at the depths of his heroin addiction, selling his flat in Manhattan for some trivial sum- that amounted to whatever cash a wealthy friend had on him- to score. Townes Van Zandt sold (or tried to sell) the publishing rights to his first four albums for $20, same addiction. Even if Leaf still has all (or much) of the NFL loot, when that monkey comes-a-clawin' , you're going to do whatever you have to do. In the case of pill heads, that means buying them if you have a connection and the money. If you don't have a connection or money and know someone who has a scrip, trying to cajole them into giving you some. If they have some but won't give you any, breaking in and stealing it. If you don't know anyone who has any, don't have money to buy it and/or don't have a reliable connection, its Drugstore Cowboy time. Go talk to any pill head, the progression is always exactly like that. Money makes it a lot easier to live high but all the money in the world doesn't mean much when you have an addiction and can't score easily. Maureen McCormick (Marcia Brady) was in the Playboy mansion sucking coke dealer cawk to score blow when she still had plenty of money. It's just that the d-man wanted something different from her but if he wanted money, she would've given that too.
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#29 BigDMcGee

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 11:26 AM

In fairness, Marsha loved the dick.
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#30 AmScray

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 11:09 PM

He was recently remanded to prison to serve out a 7 yeaer sentence, due to busting out of rehab.
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#31 NickCave

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 02:38 AM

View PostAmScray, on 13 June 2013 - 11:09 PM, said:

He was recently remanded to prison to serve out a 7 yeaer sentence, due to busting out of rehab.

I don't think that's right. He was just being an ass in rehab and they finally had enough and violated him

#32 NickCave

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 02:43 AM

Also, prison is rarely the best option for anything. Place just ****s people up and often leads to impotence, helplessness, desperation and eventually a kind of unavoidable and predictable recidivism. Going to jail makes you a lot more likely to go to jail in the future, because jail.


Edit: I've never been to prison, but I have spent some time in jail for nonsense stuff. It was like summer camp for fake hardasses.

#33 Whiskers

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 06:49 AM

View PostNickCave, on 14 June 2013 - 02:43 AM, said:

Edit: I've never been to prison, but I have spent some time in jail for nonsense stuff.

Like missing child support payments and stuff?

#34 NickCave

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 06:58 AM

Nah, nothing nearly as detestable. Deadbeats are the worst.

#35 Tiltinagain

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 09:42 AM

I lived in E-WA for many years. The stories of Leaf's escapades around Pullman (Where WSU is) and Spokane are legendary. Typical golden boy who had everyone telling him how great he was, giving him gifts, flying him to parties in L.A and Vegas. (Several) Million dollar arm and a .10 cent head. Just could not deal with failure and, for the first time in his life, not being the best. His jail time was mostly for crimes committed trying to get drugs. You can't just ignore breaking the law because he's a drug addict. Though it is a sad story.

View PostJubilantLankyLad, on 23 October 2015 - 04:24 PM, said:

Go to hell, brvy.

View Postfrautotenkinder, on 22 May 2014 - 09:20 PM, said:

I am not comfortable with vaginas and lunch meats being in the same metaphor. Anything besides saying or implying that is an improvement.



speedz99 said:

Fine...when god dies, I'll be ok with people being upset on facebook.


#36 NickCave

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 01:32 PM

View PostTiltinagain, on 15 June 2013 - 09:42 AM, said:

I lived in E-WA for many years. The stories of Leaf's escapades around Pullman (Where WSU is) and Spokane are legendary. Typical golden boy who had everyone telling him how great he was, giving him gifts, flying him to parties in L.A and Vegas. (Several) Million dollar arm and a .10 cent head. Just could not deal with failure and, for the first time in his life, not being the best. His jail time was mostly for crimes committed trying to get drugs. You can't just ignore breaking the law because he's a drug addict. Though it is a sad story.

Who has suggested ignoring his crimes? If you want to argue his problems are best handled by courts and prison, fine, but you have to at least try to make sense. Don't set up and knock down absurd straw men that only serve to muddy the issue

#37 Roll the Bones

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 01:23 PM

This is a little off the topic, but did you guys see that Florida has a law going into effect in 2 weeks that bans any smoking device, pipes, bongs, etc.. Get caught twice and it's a felony. What it really boils down to is ALEC owning congressmen in certain states and getting them to pass ignorant legislation that benefits their business. In this case, it's private prisons who stand to make a fortune housing non-violent offenders. Gov Scott is obviously just a tool for the corporate cronies and people are too damn stupid to see through the mess. He bills this as being, "tough on drugs" and people aren't the wiser. Incarcerating non-violent offenders only makes them less employable and more prone to commit further crimes. There is no monetary benefit for the state, and in fact it will likely cost them money. It's all batshit insane. And the funny thing is, other states like Colorado have gone the complete opposite direction making it legal, and in fact hired government agents to actively seek drug dealers and convince them to go into business legitamately since they have the actual business experience. win/win.

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#38 Balloon guy

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 01:31 PM

Getting drug dealers to go legit because they have 'actual business experience'?

That's not even remotely right.

I mean they have more business experience than Obama, but 'actual business experience'?

Colorado is such a mix of smart and stupid
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#39 colonel Feathers

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 09:45 AM

When a druggie commits burglary to support his habit, hes not going to jail cause hes a druggie.
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#40 NickCave

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 10:24 AM

View Postcolonel Feathers, on 19 June 2013 - 09:45 AM, said:

When a druggie commits burglary to support his habit, hes not going to jail cause hes a druggie.

Jesus Christ, just everything about you




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