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Exploitation Of The Trayvon Martin Killing


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#41 Zealous Donkey

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 11:10 AM

View PostFCP Bob, on Monday, March 26th, 2012, 1:01 PM, said:

It appears to me as I've pointed out before that if Trayvon had a gun he would have been within his rights to shoot and kill Zimmerman before Zimmerman got close to him based on Florida law. You can't claim self defense when you are the one who initiates the conflict.
I mean, Yes you are correct, we all seem to agree on that part, if he was simply walking through the neighborhood and Zimmerman had his gun drawn. Yet, even with all the media hype, the state and fed govt getting involved there still isn't an arrest. Would you consider the possibility that maybe what has made it into media reports is not exactly what happened. Are you saying the Florida law says it would be ok to kill someone who is following you? Or even punch them for that matter? I don't think so. If your point is this law is unclear you may be right, but as of now the facts are very unclear as well.
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#42 Pot Odds RAC

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 11:11 AM

View PostFCP Bob, on Monday, March 26th, 2012, 3:01 PM, said:

It appears to me as I've pointed out before that if Trayvon had a gun he would have been within his rights to shoot and kill Zimmerman before Zimmerman got close to him based on Florida law. You can't claim self defense when you are the one who initiates the conflict.
There isn't any proof of who initiated and escalated the Conflict at this point. If Zimmerman was carrying a weapon and identified himself properly and wasn't acting aggressively, then just having a weapon isn't an aggressive act - even though many people, especially Non Americans, have an irrational fear of guns.

#43 CaneBrain

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 11:13 AM

View PostZealous Donkey, on Monday, March 26th, 2012, 3:01 PM, said:

Again I ask! What conservative media? I am familiar with many of the conservative blogs and none are saying much at all about any of this. So you think things like him being 6ft 3 inches tall being suspended from school for punching a bus driver should be left out of media accounts? A guy has been tried and convicted to death in the media already, and yet media, who point out that this kid may not be exactly the person the mains stream media has been portraying for a week now, are somehow deficient? Come on, I don't think you even believe that.
I don't believe any of the nonsense you wrote here. I don't think trying and convicting the shooter is any different from trying to try and convict the victim.first they were ignoring it: http://themoderatevo...martin-killing/this is my favorite: http://www.wagist.co...n-a-drug-dealer
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#44 irishguy

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 11:14 AM

View PostZealous Donkey, on Monday, March 26th, 2012, 12:01 PM, said:

Again I ask! What conservative media? I am familiar with many of the conservative blogs and none are saying much at all about any of this. So you think things like him being 6ft 3 inches tall being suspended from school for punching a bus driver should be left out of media accounts? A guy has been tried and convicted to death in the media already, and yet media, who point out that this kid may not be exactly the person the mains stream media has been portraying for a week now, are somehow deficient? Come on, I don't think you even believe that.
First I've seen numberous mention of the size of this kid, second from accounts that are being released today he was suspended for a pot related offence. Are either of these things all that relevant considering the only reason any of this happened is because while armed he followed a kid because he looked suspicious (ie black, in a hoodie)? People saying "if he wasn't dressed that way" or "look at his history" are right in line with questioning a rape victim for what she wore and he sexual history.
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#45 CaneBrain

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 11:16 AM

View PostPot Odds RAC, on Monday, March 26th, 2012, 3:11 PM, said:

There isn't any proof of who initiated and escalated the Conflict at this point. If Zimmerman was carrying a weapon and identified himself properly and wasn't acting aggressively, then just having a weapon isn't an aggressive act - even though many people, especially Non Americans, have an irrational fear of guns.
I guess I have an irrational fear of poisonous snakes and all other things that could easily kill me.There's plenty of proof who initiated the conflict. He followed after someone with a gun after being told not to do so. He said "these ****ers always get away". This kid sure didn't get away. I think the idea that following after someone in the dark who is just walking with a loaded gun isn't an aggressive act is the funniest thing I've heard said in connection to this case.
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#46 Zealous Donkey

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 11:18 AM

View PostCaneBrain, on Monday, March 26th, 2012, 1:13 PM, said:

I don't believe any of the nonsense you wrote here. I don't think trying and convicting the shooter is any different from trying to try and convict the victim.first they were ignoring it: http://themoderatevo...martin-killing/this is my favorite: http://www.wagist.co...n-a-drug-dealer
But you don't' see a difference between the ABC news and www.wagist.com. Which me, and most of the rest of the world has never heard of.
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#47 CaneBrain

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 11:18 AM

View Postirishguy, on Monday, March 26th, 2012, 3:14 PM, said:

People saying "if he wasn't dressed that way" or "look at his history" are right in line with questioning a rape victim for what she wore and he sexual history.
ding, ding, ding. Not to mention you can't say the media is biased and is crucifying Zimmerman and then claim that all these new reports about his pot suspension and gold teeth and tattoos came from liberal media biased for Martin. Unless, Zealous is admitting that the mainstream media isn't really that biased after all.
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#48 CaneBrain

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 11:18 AM

View PostZealous Donkey, on Monday, March 26th, 2012, 3:18 PM, said:

But you don't' see a difference between the ABC news and www.wagist.com. Which me, and most of the rest of the world has never heard of.
I'd post Fox News coverage of the Martin incident if there was any.
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#49 FCP Bob

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 11:19 AM

View PostPot Odds RAC, on Monday, March 26th, 2012, 3:09 PM, said:

Zimmerman probably has the right to investigate and detain. The question in this case is: "Did Zimmerman under Florida law have a requirement to Avoid the conflict?"

View PostPot Odds RAC, on Monday, March 26th, 2012, 3:11 PM, said:

There isn't any proof of who initiated and escalated the Conflict at this point. If Zimmerman was carrying a weapon and identified himself properly and wasn't acting aggressively, then just having a weapon isn't an aggressive act - even though many people, especially Non Americans, have an irrational fear of guns.
Zimmerman was neighbourhood watch. He had no right to detain anybody and even if he did what was the reason to detain the kid, walking while Black wearing a hoodie ?
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#50 CaneBrain

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 11:22 AM

View PostCaneBrain, on Monday, March 26th, 2012, 3:18 PM, said:

I'd post Fox News coverage of the Martin incident if there was any.
ok think progress is a hopelessly biased leftie site but this amused me: http://thinkprogress...yvon/?mobile=nc
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#51 Zealous Donkey

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 11:27 AM

View Postirishguy, on Monday, March 26th, 2012, 1:14 PM, said:

First I've seen numberous mention of the size of this kid, second from accounts that are being released today he was suspended for a pot related offence. Are either of these things all that relevant considering the only reason any of this happened is because while armed he followed a kid because he looked suspicious (ie black, in a hoodie)? People saying "if he wasn't dressed that way" or "look at his history" are right in line with questioning a rape victim for what she wore and he sexual history.
I think the whole point is the media caused all this. Dude the media is the one saying he followed him just because he was black wearing a hoodie. Anyone unknown walking in a gated community where there have been several recent break ins would be rightly considered suspicious. The bold part is silly. No one is saying he deserved to die, in fact mainly, at least in this thread, people are commenting on how the media is portraying this.
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#52 CaneBrain

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 11:29 AM

View PostZealous Donkey, on Monday, March 26th, 2012, 3:27 PM, said:

Anyone unknown walking in a gated community where there have been several recent break ins would be rightly considered suspicious.
I just want to be clear that I do NOT agree with this.
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#53 irishguy

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 11:33 AM

View PostZealous Donkey, on Monday, March 26th, 2012, 11:27 AM, said:

I think the whole point is the media caused all this. Dude the media is the one saying he followed him just because he was black wearing a hoodie. Anyone unknown walking in a gated community where there have been several recent break ins would be rightly considered suspicious. The bold part is silly. No one is saying he deserved to die, in fact mainly, at least in this thread, people are commenting on how the media is portraying this.
The media didn't cause any of this! Zimmerman did..the 911 tapes are saying that he followed him and its pretty clear in those tapes its in large part because he was black- how else did he look suspicious? It wasn't stating he was lurking in bushes or peeking in windows it was that he was a black/dressed a certain way. As to the bolded part there are idiots such as Geraldo pointing out the way he was dressed, and you yourself have pointed in this thread to his "history" which again is as relevant to the subject as is how many sexual partners a rape victim has had.
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#54 Zealous Donkey

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 11:38 AM

View PostCaneBrain, on Monday, March 26th, 2012, 1:18 PM, said:

ding, ding, ding. Not to mention you can't say the media is biased and is crucifying Zimmerman and then claim that all these new reports about his pot suspension and gold teeth and tattoos came from liberal media biased for Martin. Unless, Zealous is admitting that the mainstream media isn't really that biased after all.
Usually the way it works is that more conservative leaning reports uncover this new stuff the MSM never even bothered to investigate (because they have their narrative already). Finally they are forced kicking and screaming to finally report these new findings. But Brietbart is dead and I haven't read anything other than sympathetic reports towards Martin in the conservative blogs and news sites. There are those critical of the media, black panthers, Sharpton, Jesse, ect, but not towards Martin. So maybe the msm is actually digging some of this new info up. Irish says he read some of these things in the MSM. The few reports I had read all had a picture of what appeared to be a 13 or 14 year old kid with a story about how he took a break from watching tv to have some skittles and tea. When all of sudden he was attacked and shot by an armed white man. BTW, the race of the perps is never revealed at least in reports in the St. Louis post dispatch. But this guy was immediately called white when he is really Hispanic.
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#55 Zealous Donkey

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 11:48 AM

View Postirishguy, on Monday, March 26th, 2012, 1:33 PM, said:

The media didn't cause any of this! Zimmerman did..the 911 tapes are saying that he followed him and its pretty clear in those tapes its in large part because he was black- how else did he look suspicious? It wasn't stating he was lurking in bushes or peeking in windows it was that he was a black/dressed a certain way. As to the bolded part there are idiots such as Geraldo pointing out the way he was dressed, and you yourself have pointed in this thread to his "history" which again is as relevant to the subject as is how many sexual partners a rape victim has had.
Your damn right its relevant. If this guy is violent then he may have confronted and attacked zimmerman just for following him or questioning him. From what I have read I agree with what you stated in your earlier post about him being scared, confused, ect. That Zimmerman probably was at fault. But you saying that other stuff isn't relevant when self-defense is being claimed is wrong. Now ideally it wouldn't be reported in the media, but, thats the problem with the way these things always get handled. It is the nature of the beast. When you trial someone through the media, the victim is going to eventually be scrutinized.
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#56 colonel Feathers

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 12:04 PM

40 shot, 10 killed including a little girl i south chicago over the weekend. Is there no national outrage over this, or is black on black crime not open for outrage.
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#57 mrdannyg

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 12:04 PM

View PostBalloon guy, on Monday, March 26th, 2012, 1:57 PM, said:

This was the way it was for most of this countries history. What is gross is this feminzation of this country telling us to cower and hide and let bad guys take our stuff as long as they don't hurt us. Good advice for a single mom alone, but if you cower when a guy breaks into your house, then turn in your man card.
You somehow managed one of the most racist and sexist posts I've ever read, all into one. Congratulations, you're a bigot!
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#58 mrdannyg

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 12:05 PM

View Postcolonel Feathers, on Monday, March 26th, 2012, 5:04 PM, said:

40 shot, 10 killed including a little girl i south chicago over the weekend. Is there no national outrage over this, or is black on black crime not open for outrage.
Did the person who commited the crime not get arrested for it despite him very likely killing the people without a reasonable basis for doing so?If not, you might want to shut the hell up.
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#59 Zealous Donkey

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 12:06 PM

View PostCaneBrain, on Monday, March 26th, 2012, 1:29 PM, said:

I just want to be clear that I do NOT agree with this.
Your simply lying here to make your self feel superior. You may not call the cops or act on your suspicion in any way at all. But I dare say if you lived in a gated community in which you and/or several of your neighbors had experienced recent break-ins that you would be at least somewhat suspicious of a stranger walking through at night. I will even go as far as to say that seeing a large, young black man wearing a hoodie would make you even more suspicious. Especially if the gated community were overwhelmingly white. I am not picking on you, I believe this applies to almost every human being of any race.
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#60 CaneBrain

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 12:06 PM

View Postcolonel Feathers, on Monday, March 26th, 2012, 4:04 PM, said:

40 shot, 10 killed including a little girl i south chicago over the weekend. Is there no national outrage over this, or is black on black crime not open for outrage.
Did they arrest the shooter(s) or at least attempt to do so? If so, it's not remotely the same thing.
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