369 replies to this topic

[Balloon guy]

And now we find that pot was the reason he was suspended...16 minutes ago...man I am on top of thingsWhich destroys my 'was he busted for stealing?'But part of me still suspects that since the evidence comes only from his family, its possible the facts have been massaged...

[Balloon guy]

Quote

A twitter message, allegedly sent by Trayvon's older brother, suggests Trayvon was suspended for assaulting a bus driver.Trayvon Martin was on a suspension from school when he was tragically shot last February 26th. His school, Dr. Micheal M. Krop Senior High School, has not given any details. His family has also evaded the issue. According to the Kansas City Star, the length of the suspension was ten days. This suggests a very serious offense.If Trayvon Martin was suspended for a violent act, it would alter the public's perception of the events surrounding his death.Trayvon's older brother, Stephen Martin, appears to have sent Trayvon a twitter message five days before the shooting that may explain the ten day suspension. The website WAGIST.com has scrutinized the twitter messages sent by Trayvon's older brother and his friends.WAGIST.com says that Stephen Martin tweeted a message to Trayvon on February 21st that read "yu ain't tell me yu swung on a bus driver." Based on screen captures provided by WAGIST.com, the message appears to be authentic. It was sent five days before the shooting, and raises a lot of speculation. Was Trayvon Martin suspended for ten days for assaulting a bus driver?Stephen has also posted a newer picture of Trayvon both on twitter and on Facebook. It shows an older, more muscular Trayvon than what we have seen in the media. It also shows a large tattoo on Trayvon's left arm.

5 days before the incident his brother says Trayvon took a swing at the bus driver....

[CaneBrain]

Balloon guy, on Monday, March 26th, 2012, 1:18 PM, said:

The number of calls to the police is only relevant if there was never any crimes. Once you establish that there have been a rash of break ins ( forget where I saw this and not looking it up ) then you can create an environment where a stranger walking in a neighborhood, in the rain, is in fact a suspicious person.

That's a far cry from assuming someone is probably a criminal getting away just because. You're original theory was complete racist BS. The above is far more plausible.I don't find his suspension relevant and I think saying his tattoo or being more muscular might change things is ridiculous (especially since his tattoo could not have been visible with a hoodie on). This is not information Zimmerman had access to. All he had to go on was he saw at the time. His initial decision to go after Martin against the advice of 911 was the biggest mistake here. That created the situation.I find it hard to believe that Martin doubled back to start a fist fight with a guy holding a gun.

[Balloon guy]

End of the day Zimmerman should be tried for escalating the incident into a killing. The kid didn't deserve death even if he was casing the place. What that translates into legally I don't know, manslaughter maybe?The story has become a racist lightning rod though, and Zimmerman and his family are going to be killed because of opportunist idiots latching onto this kid's death for their own personal gain.It's just all bad.

[Balloon guy]

CaneBrain, on Monday, March 26th, 2012, 10:31 AM, said:

That's a far cry from assuming someone is probably a criminal getting away just because. You're original theory was complete racist BS. The above is far more plausible.

Explain how what I wrote was racist BS please.

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I don't find his suspension relevant and I think saying his tattoo or being more muscular might change things is ridiculous (especially since his tattoo could not have been visible with a hoodie on). This is not information Zimmerman had access to. All he had to go on was he saw at the time. His initial decision to go after Martin against the advice of 911 was the biggest mistake here. That created the situation.I find it hard to believe that Martin doubled back to start a fist fight with a guy holding a gun.

911 never said: "Do not chase him", They said "That's not necessary"And I love your double standards.Zimmerman couldn't know the kid was 6'3" and muscular and had tattoos and suspended from school for pot and punching bus drivers...but the kid knew he had a gun so he would never turn and punch the guy.I guess the guy punched himself?

[CaneBrain]

Balloon guy, on Monday, March 26th, 2012, 1:33 PM, said:

End of the day Zimmerman should be tried for escalating the incident into a killing. The kid didn't deserve death even if he was casing the place. What that translates into legally I don't know, manslaughter maybe?The story has become a racist lightning rod though, and Zimmerman and his family are going to be killed because of opportunist idiots latching onto this kid's death for their own personal gain.It's just all bad.

That's all reasonable people are asking for: a trial. You can't just send him home. I would say this is 2nd Degree Manslaughter which is when you cause someone to die because of recklessness. It carries a maximum sentence of 15 years; I would think if he was guilty of that as a first time offender he would get 5-7 years.I think we all agree that the liberal media is demonizing Zimmerman and trying him in the media and the conservative media has responded by trying to undermine the image of Trayvon Martin and point out the opportunism of the Al Sharptons of the world. That's what the media does now and it is too bad.

[Zealous Donkey]

CaneBrain, on Monday, March 26th, 2012, 11:14 AM, said:

If you have any evidence that anyone has said this kid exhibited actual suspicious activity, now would be a good time to share.

Zimmerman hasn't been arrested yet. Or has he?

[CaneBrain]

Balloon guy, on Monday, March 26th, 2012, 1:39 PM, said:

Explain how what I wrote was racist BS please.911 never said: "Do not chase him", They said "That's not necessary"And I love your double standards.Zimmerman couldn't know the kid was 6'3" and muscular and had tattoos and suspended from school for pot and punching bus drivers...but the kid knew he had a gun so he would never turn and punch the guy.I guess the guy punched himself?

You can see a gun. You can't see tattoos through a sweatshirt or know a person's school history by looking at him. My theory is plausible because of the power of human vision. Yours assumes super powers. Unless you just assume Martin had tattoos and a history of suspensions because he's big and black which is what Sharpton would say happened.I think that assuming someone is a criminal getting away based on 1) he is walking down a street and 2) I don't know him-----because that's how it was sometimes in this countries' history is racistZD, he has not been arrested. He was not even taken to a police station, ffs.

[Zealous Donkey]

CaneBrain, on Monday, March 26th, 2012, 11:42 AM, said:

That's all reasonable people are asking for: a trial. You can't just send him home. I would say this is 2nd Degree Manslaughter which is when you cause someone to die because of recklessness. It carries a maximum sentence of 15 years; I would think if he was guilty of that as a first time offender he would get 5-7 years.I think we all agree that the liberal media is demonizing Zimmerman and trying him in the media and the conservative media has responded by trying to undermine the image of Trayvon Martin and point out the opportunism of the Al Sharptons of the world. That's what the media does now and it is too bad.

What conservative media? I haven't seen anything like that. Has there been something like that on foxnews. I don't watch foxnews so I wouldn't know. Is the media really "undermining" his image or rounding it out a bit.

[Balloon guy]

CaneBrain, on Monday, March 26th, 2012, 10:45 AM, said:

You can see a gun. You can't see tattoos through a sweatshirt or know a person's school history by looking at him. My theory is plausible because of the power of human vision. Yours assumes super powers. Unless you just assume Martin had tattoos and a history of suspensions because he's big and black which is what Sharpton would say happened.I think that assuming someone is a criminal getting away based on 1) he is walking down a street and 2) I don't know him-----because that's how it was sometimes in this countries' history is racistZD, he has not been arrested. He was not even taken to a police station, ffs.

Waiting for an explanation of my racism...although I suspect its just projection...

[Zealous Donkey]

CaneBrain, on Monday, March 26th, 2012, 11:45 AM, said:

You can see a gun. You can't see tattoos through a sweatshirt or know a person's school history by looking at him. My theory is plausible because of the power of human vision. Yours assumes super powers. Unless you just assume Martin had tattoos and a history of suspensions because he's big and black which is what Sharpton would say happened.I think that assuming someone is a criminal getting away based on 1) he is walking down a street and 2) I don't know him-----because that's how it was sometimes in this countries' history is racistZD, he has not been arrested. He was not even taken to a police station, ffs.

I don't think BG's point is that Zimmerman knew these things, it is that the smiling picture(probably years old) , and constant use of the word 'skittles' in media reports is bullshit designed propaganda to support the narrative they want to portray, namely that there is a rash of blacks being killed by whites for simply walking around with hoodies. It is bullshit, the article I linked also goes towards that end, not the guilt or innocence of Martin or Zimmerman.

[CaneBrain]

Balloon guy, on Monday, March 26th, 2012, 2:01 PM, said:

Waiting for an explanation of my racism...although I suspect its just projection...

it's the part in there with the numbers 1 and 2.

[CaneBrain]

Zealous Donkey, on Monday, March 26th, 2012, 1:58 PM, said:

What conservative media? I haven't seen anything like that. Has there been something like that on foxnews. I don't watch foxnews so I wouldn't know. Is the media really "undermining" his image or rounding it out a bit.

so when the liberal media points out he was holding a bag of candy and not a gun they are purposefully trying to make him sympathetic but when conservatives websites start digging around into whether he has been done anything wrong in the past ever (because then this whole thing is totally justified!) they are just rounding it out a bit.

[Pot Odds RAC]

Here comes Pot Odds RAC. Must be a gun thread.Zimmerman was bloodied and beaten. You can die from a single punch to the face. Easily. For Example: http://www.lvrj.com/...-140758103.htmlYou don't have to wait for your dying breath to use lethal force.Zimmerman might have been able to deescalate the situation better. But had no legal requirement to do so. Everything else is speculation. There don't seem to be many more facts to support a legal argument beyond that.Based on the definition of Self Defense and Florida Laws, Zimmerman apparently acted within the Law.To make this a race issue on the National Level is even more ridiculous. I do predict a riot in Detroit over a case that happened in Florida.

[LongLiveYorke]

Pot Odds RAC, on Monday, March 26th, 2012, 2:48 PM, said:

Here comes Pot Odds RAC. Must be a gun thread.Zimmerman was bloodied and beaten. You can die from a single punch to the face. Easily. For Example: http://www.lvrj.com/...-140758103.htmlYou don't have to wait for your dying breath to use lethal force.Zimmerman might have been able to deescalate the situation better. But had no legal requirement to do so. Everything else is speculation. There don't seem to be many more facts to support a legal argument beyond that.Based on the definition of Self Defense and Florida Laws, Zimmerman apparently acted within the Law.To make this a race issue on the National Level is even more ridiculous. I do predict a riot in Detroit over a case that happened in Florida.

So, you're saying it would be okay if I were to punch you and then shoot and kill you with my concealed handgun when you punch me back? Cool.

[CaneBrain]

Pot Odds RAC, on Monday, March 26th, 2012, 2:48 PM, said:

Zimmerman might have been able to deescalate the situation better. But had no legal requirement to do so.

"might?" ha-ha.No, he had no legal requirement to not follow someone with a gun but that might negate his self-defense claim.

[irishguy]

Pot Odds RAC, on Monday, March 26th, 2012, 11:48 AM, said:

Here comes Pot Odds RAC. Must be a gun thread.Zimmerman was bloodied and beaten. You can die from a single punch to the face. Easily. For Example: http://www.lvrj.com/...-140758103.htmlYou don't have to wait for your dying breath to use lethal force.Zimmerman might have been able to deescalate the situation better. But had no legal requirement to do so. Everything else is speculation. There don't seem to be many more facts to support a legal argument beyond that.Based on the definition of Self Defense and Florida Laws, Zimmerman apparently acted within the Law.To make this a race issue on the National Level is even more ridiculous. I do predict a riot in Detroit over a case that happened in Florida.

Its not about Zimmerman having been able to deescalate the situation its about the fact that he instigated it. After being advised not to, while armed he followed Martin because he looked "suspicious", he sounded incredibly paranoid and irrational in the tapes that I've heard and can only imagine how he sound as he approached Martin. Was the gun visibable? Did he identify himself as neighborhood watch..if I had a guy follow me for several minutes, could see a gun and was rambling I'd likely be scared for my life and defend myself in whatever way I could.

[Zealous Donkey]

CaneBrain, on Monday, March 26th, 2012, 12:25 PM, said:

so when the liberal media points out he was holding a bag of candy and not a gun they are purposefully trying to make him sympathetic but when conservatives websites start digging around into whether he has been done anything wrong in the past ever (because then this whole thing is totally justified!) they are just rounding it out a bit.

Again I ask! What conservative media? I am familiar with many of the conservative blogs and none are saying much at all about any of this. So you think things like him being 6ft 3 inches tall being suspended from school for punching a bus driver should be left out of media accounts? A guy has been tried and convicted to death in the media already, and yet media, who point out that this kid may not be exactly the person the mains stream media has been portraying for a week now, are somehow deficient? Come on, I don't think you even believe that.

[FCP Bob]

Pot Odds RAC, on Monday, March 26th, 2012, 2:48 PM, said:

Here comes Pot Odds RAC. Must be a gun thread.Zimmerman was bloodied and beaten. You can die from a single punch to the face. Easily. For Example: http://www.lvrj.com/...-140758103.htmlYou don't have to wait for your dying breath to use lethal force.Zimmerman might have been able to deescalate the situation better. But had no legal requirement to do so. Everything else is speculation. There don't seem to be many more facts to support a legal argument beyond that.Based on the definition of Self Defense and Florida Laws, Zimmerman apparently acted within the Law.To make this a race issue on the National Level is even more ridiculous. I do predict a riot in Detroit over a case that happened in Florida.

It appears to me as I've pointed out before that if Trayvon had a gun he would have been within his rights to shoot and kill Zimmerman before Zimmerman got close to him based on Florida law. You can't claim self defense when you are the one who initiates the conflict.

[Pot Odds RAC]

LongLiveYorke, on Monday, March 26th, 2012, 2:51 PM, said:

So, you're saying it would be okay if I were to punch you and then shoot and kill you with my concealed handgun when you punch me back? Cool.

Did I say that?By punching me in the first place you've started an assault. Most Self Defense laws require that you are acting within the law when you defend yourself - you can't be in the process of committing a crime or in a place you are not legally allowed to be. So, no. You don't get to start an assault and then claim self defense. By all accounts that I have read, Zimmeman was acting in a legal manner prior to using lethal force. The one thing that might doom Zimmerman is that you can't be actively escalating a situation. Some legal definitions of Self Defense include a provision for avoidance of a deadly situation (This is true even with some "Stand Your Ground" legislation). The "avoidance" can refer to you not also being part of the escalation. For example someone cuts you off on the road (or you cut them off). You start screaming at each other. You flip him off. He stops his car. You decide to stop your car too, and keep screaming at the other guy, then get out of the car and continue to escalate. You approach each other. And then finally the other guy pulls a gun and then you shoot him in self defense. You had plenty of opportunity to avoid this confrontation, but kept engaging and escalating.Zimmerman probably has the right to investigate and detain. The question in this case is: "Did Zimmerman under Florida law have a requirement to Avoid the conflict?"