67 replies to this topic

[Balloon guy]

I blame the lawyers.It's all their fault.In the revolution we will line them up on the wall first!

[Jam-Fly]

what's confusing me is, how is posting a link to DN's video blog, in a thead, dedicated to DN's video blog, spamming? doesn't really matter who posts itor did DN post a link to the iseries video?

[FCP Bob]

Jam-Fly, on Thursday, March 22nd, 2012, 12:33 PM, said:

what's confusing me is, how is posting a link to DN's video blog, in a thead, dedicated to DN's video blog, spamming? doesn't really matter who posts itor did DN post a link to the iseries video?

He posted a link to You Tube for his video blog. Their policy is that self promotion of any kind isn't allowed so you can't link to your blog etc but somebody else can.

[Jam-Fly]

FCP Bob, on Thursday, March 22nd, 2012, 4:36 PM, said:

He posted a link to You Tube for his video blog. Their policy is that self promotion of any kind isn't allowed so you can't link to your blog etc but somebody else can.

lol riiiiiiight. good to see they use no common sense in their moderation so.

[CC1]

DanielNegreanu, on Thursday, March 22nd, 2012, 7:12 AM, said:

Emphatically disagree with you and don't think it's close. I've been posting on there for 10+ years and brought them loads of traffic which translates to dollars. I got a warning not to post a thread. I didn't. I posted my vlog in a thread titled "Daniels Official vlog thread." then without warning was banned. They are beyond absurd and have totally shot themselves in the foot. In 10 years I've covered a ton of topics that I could potentially "profit" from with no ban or warning. This is clearly a case of Mason's meds cocktail being off balance.

You posted your Vblog in two different threads, you've never posted a link to your vblog prior to this one that just happens to be a 6 minute infomercial about your new pet project. (among other subjects)I personally think this could have been handled differently but that being said you may want to step back take a deep breath and reconsider your statements in this thread. You've posted in 2+2 for 10 years, you got a one day ban for what may or may not have been justified. Big deal, get over it and straighten it out. I'm pretty sure you're a better man than to act like a butt hurt NVGtard over this, make a statement on 2+2 and lets get back to having fun.

[DanielNegreanu]

joejoe1337, on Thursday, March 22nd, 2012, 6:53 AM, said:

No-one is suggesting that you haven't done a lot for 2p2 over the past decade and that the higher ups shouldn't be grateful for the amount of traffic you've brought them. However like you've made clear in your last post, it is a business. A lot of companies, including your employers spend a boatload of money advertising on the site and it certainly won't look particularly good to potential clients if they're handing out freebies. Furthermore, in your eyes they should clearly cut you some slack, and perhaps that is the case, but where do we draw the line? I hate to go all 'slippery slope' but if you should be cut slack, whats the minimum someone should have done to essentially earn free advertising on the site?In regards to your last point that you've done it in the past, it's an argument I hear every day and it really confuses me. If the rules are laid out with regards to spamming, which they are, then the fact that there has been inconsistent modding over the last 10 years doesn't suddenly make spamming alright, it just means that you've been given slack in the past and now they've changed how hard they're going to enforce it.Although I'm sure it doesn't matter to you as you soon a man of principal, but it's a pretty measly punishment as well (if I understand correctly that it was a one-day ban that is, I could be mistaken). It's not as if you've been hung out to dry by Mason. If you've committed a crime (against the 2p2 TOS) then it's a very small one and you've been handed a very small punishment. I'll echo again what I said at the end of my last post, that as a 2p2 poster (rather than an owner) it's great having you around so I hope this doesn't detract you from posting more.

One of the key reasons why people like Mason couldn't possibly make a decent living playing poker in today's environment is that he is incapable of thinking outside the box. I started a thread and they took that down and gave me a warning about doing that. So I didn't do that again. I genuinely didn't think that posting in a thread ALREADY started by other posters was the same thing. Is it really? I added a link to my vlog in two threads that I thought were completely relevant, the photoshop thread since I figured they'd get a kick out of the fact I used some of the pics, and also the "Offical DN Vlog thread" since I assumed a link would be posted anyway. I was off to bed and was excited to hear some feedback so I posted it myself. As a guy who posted there for 10+ years, there isn't a SINGLE post I've ever made that can't be connected, in some way, to a personal, commercial interest. Anytime I talk about poker at all, a case can be made that I can "profit" from it. The RIGHT way to handle this situation, something Mason was too dense to comprehend, was simply to say, "You can't post that link in threads cause it has an ad in it." While I would disagree with that decision, a ban, even a "one day" ban is so pompous, arrogant, absurd, and uncalled for. It shows absolute disrespect and a clear lack of understanding the bigger picture. If we used a poker analogy, it was definitely a terrible long term decision for them. Again, this is exactly the kind of thing that makes Mason a terrible poker player, he is thinking in a vacuum without factoring in all the variables.

[DanielNegreanu]

Jam-Fly, on Thursday, March 22nd, 2012, 9:41 AM, said:

lol riiiiiiight. good to see they use no common sense in their moderation so.

Exactly, I assumed it was going to get posted anyway, so really, what's the big deal?

[DanielNegreanu]

CC1, on Thursday, March 22nd, 2012, 11:10 AM, said:

You posted your Vblog in two different threads, you've never posted a link to your vblog prior to this one that just happens to be a 6 minute infomercial about your new pet project. (among other subjects)I personally think this could have been handled differently but that being said you may want to step back take a deep breath and reconsider your statements in this thread. You've posted in 2+2 for 10 years, you got a one day ban for what may or may not have been justified. Big deal, get over it and straighten it out. I'm pretty sure you're a better man than to act like a butt hurt NVGtard over this, make a statement on 2+2 and lets get back to having fun.

Bottom line is, I don't "need" to post there. It doesn't take much, or too long to direct people here if they are interested in what I have to say. I won't be shaken down and the message I received, coupled with the ban, is exactly that.

[Mercury69]

FCP is the best site. The Mods are real human beings and not faceless, rule-quoting, power-mad drones. My experiences on 2p2 and Pocket5ives have generally been negative.

[Balloon guy]

Maybe you should have a Vblog that talks about how wonderful Mason is and how you've learned so much from him and Hellmuth.Then link your next post to that Vblog.It would be an interesting experiment in human psychology

[CC1]

DanielNegreanu, on Thursday, March 22nd, 2012, 4:07 PM, said:

Bottom line is, I don't "need" to post there. It doesn't take much, or too long to direct people here if they are interested in what I have to say. I won't be shaken down and the message I received, coupled with the ban, is exactly that.

O'rly, "shaken down", LOL. How about steppin up to the plate and paying a few bucks to advertise instead of spamming for freebies and then getting all bent out of shape because you got called out on it.

[Jerry]

If you think Mason is a nutcase what about Daniel? I've been locked in his basement for nearly six years.

[DanielNegreanu]

CC1, on Thursday, March 22nd, 2012, 2:27 PM, said:

O'rly, "shaken down", LOL. How about steppin up to the plate and paying a few bucks to advertise instead of spamming for freebies and then getting all bent out of shape because you got called out on it.

You couldn't be any more wrong. Seriously. Every single post I ever made on 2+2 is something that could be considered "for profit." I've discussed various topics like Epic, WSOP, WPT, EPT, etc on their forum and they had no problem with that. I've mentioned 2+2 in various interviews yet I don't remember getting a check in the mail for all that "free advertising" I did for them. They aren't using common sense. I brought them a lot of FREE value and had I known posting my vlog in the photoshop thread and the Vlog thread would warrant a ban, I wouldn't have done that. Either way, they made a mountain out of a molehill and made a very poor decision to not apply logic to a situation where it was warranted. Mason should have used discretion, realized that I had a solid track record of not "spamming" any site and clearly given me the benefit of the doubt for not realizing that posting my vlog was considered spam. As for advertising on their site, my gosh, talk about an AWFUL business decision!!! There is virtually NO one who would gamble on iSeriesLIVE that I can't reach via twitter, FaceBook, and YouTube. For them to think otherwise is foolish, arrogant, and archaic. This isn't 1994.

[KingJames]

Mercury69, on Thursday, March 22nd, 2012, 2:09 PM, said:

FCP is the best site. The Mods are real human beings and not faceless, rule-quoting, power-mad drones. My experiences on 2p2 and Pocket5ives have generally been negative.

You're welcome

[FCP Bob]

Jerry, on Thursday, March 22nd, 2012, 5:49 PM, said:

If you think Mason is a nutcase what about Daniel? I've been locked in his basement for nearly six years.

At least he fed you, even if it was all that weird Vegan stuff.

[CC1]

DanielNegreanu, on Thursday, March 22nd, 2012, 6:07 PM, said:

You couldn't be any more wrong. Seriously. Every single post I ever made on 2+2 is something that could be considered "for profit." I've discussed various topics like Epic, WSOP, WPT, EPT, etc on their forum and they had no problem with that. I've mentioned 2+2 in various interviews yet I don't remember getting a check in the mail for all that "free advertising" I did for them. They aren't using common sense. I brought them a lot of FREE value and had I known posting my vlog in the photoshop thread and the Vlog thread would warrant a ban, I wouldn't have done that. Either way, they made a mountain out of a molehill and made a very poor decision to not apply logic to a situation where it was warranted. Mason should have used discretion, realized that I had a solid track record of not "spamming" any site and clearly given me the benefit of the doubt for not realizing that posting my vlog was considered spam. As for advertising on their site, my gosh, talk about an AWFUL business decision!!! There is virtually NO one who would gamble on iSeriesLIVE that I can't reach via twitter, FaceBook, and YouTube. For them to think otherwise is foolish, arrogant, and archaic. This isn't 1994.

And for you to think you can spam their site is foolish and arrogant too. Seriously, you have 600 posts on 2+2, you're far from a regular poster and while you're well respected you really don't bring that much to the table. No one is going to stop going to 2+2 because you're not posting there, you're presence is virtually meaningless. (with regards to traffic on the site)I don't say that to disrespect you but it's simply the reality. You used 2+2 to get out your Vblog, which was fine, no one had a problem with it but to think it's ok to post that friggin infomercial (Afterall that's all your last Vblog was) is just insulting to our intelligence. I do wish you good luck with Iseries but do yourself a favor and find someone that can design a website, even if you have to pay for it.

[DanielNegreanu]

CC1, on Thursday, March 22nd, 2012, 4:13 PM, said:

And for you to think you can spam their site is foolish and arrogant too. Seriously, you have 600 posts on 2+2, you're far from a regular poster and while you're well respected you really don't bring that much to the table. No one is going to stop going to 2+2 because you're not posting there, you're presence is virtually meaningless. (with regards to traffic on the site)I don't say that to disrespect you but it's simply the reality. You used 2+2 to get out your Vblog, which was fine, no one had a problem with it but to think it's ok to post that friggin infomercial (Afterall that's all your last Vblog was) is just insulting to our intelligence. I do wish you good luck with Iseries but do yourself a favor and find someone that can design a website, even if you have to pay for it.

Here is the thing bro, all they had to do was take down my posts and send me a PM saying, "You can't do that." A one day ban is just ridiculous. Did they really think I was going to become a spam monkey and go off on a spamming spree? It was like 3am, I posted the vlog in two threads at the same time. Had they just taken it down and explained why, I would have said "OK, if those are the rules, those are the rules." Giving me a "temp ban" to a poster that's been posting for 10 years is spastic. I genuinely thought, based on the PM that I got, that it was starting the thread that was the problem, not posting in an already existing thread. I really didn't think it was an issue, but had I been told it was, I would have stopped doing it. A ban? I mean really? THAT's how you respond to a poster with zero infractions in 10 years? Whether what I did was right or wrong ultimately becomes totally irrelevant. The way they handled it, it simply can not be argued, that it was optimal. Send me a PM and say "don't do that" and it's dead issue. Ban me? What am I a child over here that needs a timeout? Give me a break.

[CC1]

DanielNegreanu, on Thursday, March 22nd, 2012, 7:30 PM, said:

Here is the thing bro, all they had to do was take down my posts and send me a PM saying, "You can't do that." A one day ban is just ridiculous. Did they really think I was going to become a spam monkey and go off on a spamming spree? It was like 3am, I posted the vlog in two threads at the same time. Had they just taken it down and explained why, I would have said "OK, if those are the rules, those are the rules." Giving me a "temp ban" to a poster that's been posting for 10 years is spastic. I genuinely thought, based on the PM that I got, that it was starting the thread that was the problem, not posting in an already existing thread. I really didn't think it was an issue, but had I been told it was, I would have stopped doing it. A ban? I mean really? THAT's how you respond to a poster with zero infractions in 10 years? Whether what I did was right or wrong ultimately becomes totally irrelevant. The way they handled it, it simply can not be argued, that it was optimal. Send me a PM and say "don't do that" and it's dead issue. Ban me? What am I a child over here that needs a timeout? Give me a break.

I don't think either one of you acted optimally. I hope it gets worked out, just think, you now have some street cred on 2+2!

[joejoe1337]

DanielNegreanu, on Thursday, March 22nd, 2012, 7:56 PM, said:

One of the key reasons why people like Mason couldn't possibly make a decent living playing poker in today's environment is that he is incapable of thinking outside the box. I started a thread and they took that down and gave me a warning about doing that. So I didn't do that again. I genuinely didn't think that posting in a thread ALREADY started by other posters was the same thing. Is it really? I added a link to my vlog in two threads that I thought were completely relevant, the photoshop thread since I figured they'd get a kick out of the fact I used some of the pics, and also the "Offical DN Vlog thread" since I assumed a link would be posted anyway. I was off to bed and was excited to hear some feedback so I posted it myself. As a guy who posted there for 10+ years, there isn't a SINGLE post I've ever made that can't be connected, in some way, to a personal, commercial interest. Anytime I talk about poker at all, a case can be made that I can "profit" from it. The RIGHT way to handle this situation, something Mason was too dense to comprehend, was simply to say, "You can't post that link in threads cause it has an ad in it." While I would disagree with that decision, a ban, even a "one day" ban is so pompous, arrogant, absurd, and uncalled for. It shows absolute disrespect and a clear lack of understanding the bigger picture. If we used a poker analogy, it was definitely a terrible long term decision for them. Again, this is exactly the kind of thing that makes Mason a terrible poker player, he is thinking in a vacuum without factoring in all the variables.

First things first, I think calling Mason a terrible poker player really detracts from your argument. I think you're putting across an interesting debate but there's no need to get into schoolyard name calling, and for what it's worth I'm sure Mason doesn't live under any pretense that he's a good poker player. He's just someone that started a publishing company a few decades ago. I should also add that despite my obvious soft spot for 2p2, it's not in my nature to generally defend Mason as I've got some pretty massive differences of opinions as him and in most situations I find myself disagreeing with him.I've said before that you are a very valuable poster to 2p2 in general, in fact it's very clear and straightforward (and probably measurable). What isn't so measurable though are the long run effects to 2p2 of letting someone spam. There's the initial costs of pissing off other advertisers, not to mention that increased amount of modding required to stop everyone else spamming, 'hey, if Daniel is allowed to post about his venture then why am I not?'. The former is extremely hard to quantify, I'm not trying to suggest I know the first thing about which is more valuable to 2p2, but it should become very clear that they have good reason to at least have the rules in the first place and why it shouldn't be as easy as breaking them for the whim of a 'good business decision'. In regards to 'every post I make can be seen as profitable for me',which is obviously true, that's really not why you got banned. I won't bore everyone (including myself) trying to find Bobo Fett's post but it's in the 2p2 thread as he laid out exactly what constitutes spamming and why it's different from building Daniel Negreanu the brand by just being a good poster/television personality etc.I don't think anyone on either side of the argument thinks of you in the same light as most spammers, I think everyone believes that you sincerely thought putting it in the 'DN blog thread' was hunky dory, which is why a lot of people think the powers that be could have acted with slightly more respect. I don't really know, throughout this debate all I've been trying to say is that I empathise with their decision.

[Ninja Ace]

DanielNegreanu, on Thursday, March 22nd, 2012, 3:12 AM, said:

Emphatically disagree with you and don't think it's close. I've been posting on there for 10+ years and brought them loads of traffic which translates to dollars. I got a warning not to post a thread. I didn't. I posted my vlog in a thread titled "Daniels Official vlog thread." then without warning was banned. They are beyond absurd and have totally shot themselves in the foot. In 10 years I've covered a ton of topics that I could potentially "profit" from with no ban or warning. This is clearly a case of Mason's meds cocktail being off balance.

here here fuck 4

KingJames, on Thursday, March 22nd, 2012, 2:29 PM, said:

You're welcome

stfu donk <3

DanielNegreanu, on Thursday, March 22nd, 2012, 3:30 PM, said:

Whether what I did was right or wrong ultimately becomes totally irrelevant. The way they handled it, it simply can not be argued, that it was optimal. Send me a PM and say "don't do that" and it's dead issue. Ban me? What am I a child over here that needs a timeout? Give me a break.

FWIW the pm exchange you describe is pretty much on par for the "ban" procedure. Usually I post something that indirectly, and then eventually directly, tells the 4 circle jerk to go **** themselves, then I get a PM from a mod telling me to "chill out", then I swear like a sailor at the mod telling him "go ahead, ban me, if I really want to post you can't stop me anyway", and then I continue my infrequent 2 month or so gapped postscliffs: DN was banned bc they wanted to send a messagecliff cliffs: that message was 4 sucks ballz

CC1, on Thursday, March 22nd, 2012, 3:13 PM, said:

No one is going to stop going to 2+2 because you're not posting there

I just did, because it's clear that the higher ups, i.e. you , have some creepy tendancies to follow banned posters all the way to their site.He's got a pic with President mother ****ing Obama bitch, you? You're probably American, not Canadian like DN, and can't even come close to that claimLearn some humility ****