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Tourny Hand(s)


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#1 bat

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 05:50 AM

Early in a tournment I like to either play uber tight, or open up the range a bit and play slightly aggressive just to mix it up against guys who may be good note takers. Here's a hand that is sort of in the mid range as I had suited connectors against a table that appeared to be mostly limp/look/folders, with the exception of a couple of guys, so I decided to increase my positional hand range to take advantage and chip up. 80% of the time I like to just limp in with drawing hands, because it increases the likely hood of attracting others to deposit to my potential EV, should I connect. This particular villian, ddt, had been the most aggressive at the table but seemed to showdown some mediocre hands, so I couldnt resist but to take the extra mile on the river with the nuts! Critiques are very welcome! Thanks!Hand #47574132-15 at 7:20am-PtsRegular-007 (No Limit tournament Hold'em)Started at 22/Jan/12 07:36:50 Brooks17 is at seat 0 with 1550. thoracicpark is at seat 2 with 955. deejayfrancis is at seat 3 with 2955. stevenbourgeo is at seat 4 with 0 (sitting out). ieddyrun is at seat 5 with 3230. HERO is at seat 6 with 2280. ddt is at seat 7 with 2345. tarajo is at seat 8 with 120. tcuman is at seat 9 with 2040. The button is at seat 0. thoracicpark posts the small blind of 15. deejayfrancis posts the big blind of 30. Brooks17: -- -- thoracicpark: -- -- deejayfrancis: -- -- ieddyrun: -- -- HERO: Ts 9s ddt: -- -- tarajo: -- -- tcuman: -- -- Pre-flop: ieddyrun calls. HERO calls. ddt calls. tarajo folds. tcuman calls. Brooks17 folds. thoracicpark folds. deejayfrancis checks. Flop (board: Kh 8d 7s): deejayfrancis checks. ieddyrun checks. HERO bets 85. ddt raises to 170. tcuman folds. deejayfrancis folds. ieddyrun folds. HERO calls. Turn (board: Kh 8d 7s Jh): HERO checks. ddt bets 80. HERO raises to 160. ddt calls. River (board: Kh 8d 7s Jh 4d): HERO bets 825. ddt calls. Showdown: HERO shows Ts 9s. HERO has Ts 9s 8d 7s Jh: straight, jack high. ddt mucks cards. (ddt has Qs Kd.) Hand #47574132-15 Summary: No rake is taken for this hand. HERO wins 2475 with straight, jack high.

#2 KingJames

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 04:53 PM

Flop leads seems good and I think I like the sizing. Pot is 145 right? Maybe 90-120 is a bit better, but it's prob fine.I mostly lead the turn, but if we're going to check/raise the turn I think we need to do it much larger. For one, when I get check-min-raised I generally assume my opponent has the nuts (as you do) and I think most reasonable opponents will find a fold with KQ there. But if you c.r to 320-380 I think you can have some bluffs, where was the c.min-r is pretty nut heavyAnd then when we c.r larger on the turn we can bet bigger on the river without it being an overbet (it is an overbet right?)Most decent players or anyone who can hand-read pretty well will see your turn c.min-r and river over bet, put you on the nuts and fold, so in general we want to use our bet sizing to keep our ranges wider to encourage mistakes from our opponents
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#3 bat

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 06:40 AM

Thank you kindly sir! I appreciate the feedback, it was very helpful.

View PostKingJames, on Monday, January 23rd, 2012, 5:53 PM, said:

Flop leads seems good and I think I like the sizing. Pot is 145 right? Maybe 90-120 is a bit better, but it's prob fine.
I believe the pots at 135, but I could be wrong, but yeah, basically...so I see what you mean. Maybe I need to grow a pair and quit trying to keep pots low?

View PostKingJames, on Monday, January 23rd, 2012, 5:53 PM, said:

I mostly lead the turn, but if we're going to check/raise the turn I think we need to do it much larger. For one, when I get check-min-raised I generally assume my opponent has the nuts (as you do) and I think most reasonable opponents will find a fold with KQ there. But if you c.r to 320-380 I think you can have some bluffs, where was the c.min-r is pretty nut heavy
Hmm good point.... definite misplay there

View PostKingJames, on Monday, January 23rd, 2012, 5:53 PM, said:

And then when we c.r larger on the turn we can bet bigger on the river without it being an overbet (it is an overbet right?)Most decent players or anyone who can hand-read pretty well will see your turn c.min-r and river over bet, put you on the nuts and fold, so in general we want to use our bet sizing to keep our ranges wider to encourage mistakes from our opponents
I'm thinking it was a pot sized bet w/o doing the math, but yeah, I guess a bit of an overbet.....excellent point though, you've been extremely helpful, King James!!! My goal is, of course, to always max out profit and minimize losses, so thanks for giving me some very good ammunition for the next go round! I just wonder if my way of thinking is too far off based at this point? I enjoy hearing how other people handle these types of situations....fun stuff!

#4 TrueAce13

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 08:52 AM

Another thing about this hand w sizing is we need to size turn and river bets to play for stacks. And ya, as James said, your turn and river bet looks hella strong.
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#5 donk4life

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 10:22 AM

I also think I'm raising preflop. I can somewhat understand your logic, but I still think it's best to raise pre.

View Postakashenk, on 02 August 2012 - 06:44 AM, said:

I don't mind folding out hands we beat.

#6 bat

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 12:39 PM

Thanks Trueace and Donk4life.... Tell me if I'm wrong here, but I always try to think ahead about later streets of action in a cautionary manner. Is this adversely affecting my bet sizing? Say a 9 hits ther river and I'm betting more along the lines you guys are suggesting, am I not pot committed? Now all of sudden he's turned the tables with a hand like Q 10 (or even bluffs like he has it) I'm in so deep now that I have to follow through with any amount he should reraise just in case I'm showing down the best hand, correct? I know this is a ''what if'' scenario, but it's something I struggle with on a lot of hands especially when it could mean the sudden end of a tournament. I guess what I'm finding out is that I may play too conservatively and like a control freak, for lack of a better term. I was going to chalk it up to that being ''my style''. ha! It seems like I do work my way up to the top 10 to 20% in most tournaments by trying to play pot control, but hopefully by experimenting with what you guys are saying I can crack the top 5-10% more often in both live and online tourneys. Well if it was that easy everyone would be doing it, huh?Appreciate the feedback guys....tremendously! You are the best. But you already knew that. :club:

#7 donk4life

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 01:02 PM

You have to think about earlier streets if you're going to hypothetically play this hand out. Q10 is not raising that flop. And if a 9 does hit that river, I'm probably still bet/calling, because once again, Q10 makes absolutely no sense. But like everyone said, it shouldn't matter because if you set up your bet sizing correctly you don't have to worry about b/f (which I would never do anyway). You can just jam the river.I don't think there's many bluffs you can have on the turn. Whether it be a minraise or a standard raise, your opponent should be folding 100% of the time. But, I think a stationy person is more willing to call a check/minraise here rather than a large c/r. Nevertheless, I'm not advocating that you do it. The standard should still be a raise between 320-380.I also have trouble with the statement "I can crack the top 10 or 20 percent by playing pot control." If you're getting this deep into a lot of tournaments, it's almost impossible to play pot control given the antes and blind levels. Playing conservatively and choosing spots early is fine, but if you're getting knocked out once you hit the top 10 or 20 percent it means you're not effectively building your stack during crucial parts of the tournament. Granted, I may be looking into this way too much, but it's a fairly ambiguous statement.

View Postakashenk, on 02 August 2012 - 06:44 AM, said:

I don't mind folding out hands we beat.

#8 bat

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 01:51 PM

OOps, yea, duh on my part on Q10.... defeats the purpose of him re-raising on the flop in most cases without connecting there.....unless he's pretty creative I guess. Yeah, I think that's why I'm trying to reevaluate and see exactly where I'm losing ground at. You're exactly right that 'pot control' is only effective in the early stages, but then, antes eat you up and your watch your M value fade away. Although I do tend to get more aggressive in later rounds, its usually too little too late I guess. So maybe more risk in early to mid stages to chip up might be the route I need to go. I think I have an okay handle on a lot of factors in my game (especially cash games where it's pretty much enter at your own risk and when you have a feeling to do so), but I've been misleading myself in tournaments thinking that I keep getting closer and closer when in fact I'm sort of stuck in the mud spinning my wheels. Thanks for getting me on track to reevaluate my long term game Donk4life! Big help man!




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