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Deist And Libertarian Defense


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#41 DJ Vu

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Posted 19 January 2012 - 04:11 PM

View Postspeedz99, on Thursday, January 19th, 2012, 4:08 PM, said:

Seriously. I hate the mild salsa salad thing. I want it thick but not chunky, and hot as hell.
Who said anything about mild? It can be a chunky salad and still be hot as hell.

#42 iBeaver

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Posted 19 January 2012 - 04:25 PM

I have recently gotten into salsa verde. I like the tanginess but they do lack heat usually.

#43 brvheart

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Posted 19 January 2012 - 05:20 PM

View PostDJ Vu, on Thursday, January 19th, 2012, 5:43 PM, said:

Posted Image
this looks good

View PostiZuma, on 20 August 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

napa I was jesus christing suited, you guys just slipped in before me.

View PostEssay21, on 25 February 2013 - 08:32 PM, said:

.

#44 brvheart

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Posted 19 January 2012 - 05:25 PM

View Postspeedz99, on Thursday, January 19th, 2012, 6:08 PM, said:

Yeah, no, pretty sure he just wants to "prove" he's right.
Ouch. This probably hurts BG's feelings more than you think. I know it would mine.

View PostiZuma, on 20 August 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

napa I was jesus christing suited, you guys just slipped in before me.

View PostEssay21, on 25 February 2013 - 08:32 PM, said:

.

#45 SuitedAces21

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Posted 19 January 2012 - 05:36 PM

every time i hear someone selling jesus i always feel like they are trying to convince themselves just as much as the potential buyer.
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#46 Balloon guy

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Posted 19 January 2012 - 06:03 PM

Have to do something out of character and say I agree with SA on this one.The salsa I mean.
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#47 Balloon guy

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Posted 19 January 2012 - 06:06 PM

View Postspeedz99, on Thursday, January 19th, 2012, 4:08 PM, said:

As others said, I think BG's point was that I'm screwed if I wait until that point...if he's 100% correct about the whole god/heaven/selectivity thing.
Not really, more of what JJJ said.

Quote

Yeah, no, pretty sure he just wants to "prove" he's right.
Believe it or not this hurts. I mean I am sad that you feel I would want a petty win over having someone think through their decision about God and their eternal life.I am never glib about Christ, and what He did for us.
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#48 BaseJester

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Posted 19 January 2012 - 06:46 PM

View PostShakeZuma, on Thursday, January 19th, 2012, 6:53 PM, said:

I prefer fresh uncooked, basically just a pico de gallo. fresh tomatoes, onions, jalos, lime juice, parsley (I don't like cilantro), and salt. that's it.
This.But I add pepper.
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#49 vbnautilus

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Posted 19 January 2012 - 07:15 PM

View Postbrvheart, on Thursday, January 19th, 2012, 2:31 PM, said:

It is interesting that you used BG as an example here though, because it's MUCH more strange that Randy Reed and Spade care what others think. It's especially weird that Spade cares enough to start a thread to discuss it, since he hates all people and thinks everyone, except him and a few people on the atheist forum he frequents, are complete idiots. So why care enough to discuss anything with them, let alone care about their "misguided" beliefs.
I disagree with this, vehemently. Vehemently!*From an atheist perspective, the state of the world in which such a large portion of the humanity is totally misguided when it comes to the some of the most important questions of spiritual and moral life is of paramount importance. On an individual level, in caring about what you specifically think, I have a similar problem to the one BG has. I care about you as a human and therefore it matters to me that you have a belief system which is both false and prevents you from fulfilling your true potential. In short, you have a belief system which prevents you from entering heaven. I should care about that, shouldn't I?*Ok, well maybe you are right about Spademan, but since you included RandyReed in there I'm taking this to be aimed at atheists in general

#50 speedz99

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Posted 19 January 2012 - 08:37 PM

View PostDJ Vu, on Thursday, January 19th, 2012, 5:11 PM, said:

Who said anything about mild? It can be a chunky salad and still be hot as hell.
It's very rare for a chunky "garden" salsa to be very hot. The hottest salsas typically look like the one SA posted. Of course, there are exceptions.

View Postbrvheart, on Thursday, January 19th, 2012, 6:25 PM, said:

Ouch. This probably hurts BG's feelings more than you think. I know it would mine.
I wouldn't say it about you.

View PostBalloon guy, on Thursday, January 19th, 2012, 7:06 PM, said:

Believe it or not this hurts. I mean I am sad that you feel I would want a petty win over having someone think through their decision about God and their eternal life.
Your arguments almost never come off as wanting us to believe for our sakes. They're based on mocking us for not believing what you think is an obvious truth. The typical BG post is "you guys are idiots". Which is fair, as many posts aimed at you boil down to the same thing. While I do believe that you'd like me to come to christ and join you in eternal etc., I also think that this isn't what you're thinking when you try to "prove" that atheism is based on ignorance. Your tone is very different from brv's, sorry if I misinterpret it.

View PostBalloon guy, on Thursday, January 19th, 2012, 7:06 PM, said:

I am never glib about Christ, and what He did for us.
No, you're glib about people who disagree with your religious beliefs. Which, once again, is fine, but you shouldn't be surprised if it seems like you're trying to beat people at an argument as opposed to just wishing the best for them.I do believe you want the best for me in terms of my immortal soul...but in addition to wanting to be right.
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#51 Balloon guy

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Posted 19 January 2012 - 11:28 PM

View Postspeedz99, on Thursday, January 19th, 2012, 8:37 PM, said:

Your arguments almost never come off as wanting us to believe for our sakes. They're based on mocking us for not believing what you think is an obvious truth. The typical BG post is "you guys are idiots". Which is fair, as many posts aimed at you boil down to the same thing. While I do believe that you'd like me to come to christ and join you in eternal etc., I also think that this isn't what you're thinking when you try to "prove" that atheism is based on ignorance. Your tone is very different from brv's, sorry if I misinterpret it.No, you're glib about people who disagree with your religious beliefs. Which, once again, is fine, but you shouldn't be surprised if it seems like you're trying to beat people at an argument as opposed to just wishing the best for them.I do believe you want the best for me in terms of my immortal soul...but in addition to wanting to be right.
Well, I am guilty of bringing in my attitude I have in politics into religion. I'll try to be more respectful.Jewboy.
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#52 ShakeZuma

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 03:08 AM

View PostBaseJester, on Thursday, January 19th, 2012, 9:46 PM, said:

This.But I add pepper.
freak! brvheart get back here with those tips!

View PostAmScray, on 30 August 2010 - 12:41 PM, said:

one cannot possibly ascribe themselves to the larger (D) philosophy without first being a poon

#53 speedz99

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 05:27 AM

View PostBalloon guy, on Friday, January 20th, 2012, 12:28 AM, said:

Well, I am guilty of bringing in my attitude I have in politics into religion. I'll try to be more respectful.Jewboy.
SO GLIB!
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#54 The Ocho

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 01:20 PM

Mix Dj's and Billy's salsa together, and that is what I like.

View PostTheraflu, on 24 October 2014 - 05:05 PM, said:

Drinking alone makes being alone more awesome.

#55 SuitedAces21

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 01:45 PM

sounds like soup to me.
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#56 Spademan

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Posted 25 January 2012 - 04:08 AM

View Postbrvheart, on Saturday, January 14th, 2012, 8:36 AM, said:

If Spade makes a new thread titled Jesus And Constitutionalism Defense, let me know.
Idiot.

View Postbrvheart, on Saturday, January 14th, 2012, 8:36 AM, said:

haha.EDIT: I laughed at this even before I saw that I was personally excluded, since even by the title it was obvious that you decided to make this thread for a personal discussion between you and Joey. EDIT2: What books did I say I was going to read? I don't remember that. DJ Vu: search help!?"
Lord.

View Postbrvheart, on Saturday, January 14th, 2012, 8:36 AM, said:

Oh crap. I think you just found the thread where I said I would read some books. I haven't found my posts yet, but I remember being directed to that video of that dude that was supposedly a Christian and then converted, and Spade said something about some books he read or something. I have a terrible memory.EDIT: I just ordered The Jesus Puzzle and A History of God from Amazon.
Welcome to a long time ago. Welcome to making sense. Welcome to saying shit and doing what you say. Welcome to the moment. Welcome to me when I was maybe 6 years old, when I might have said shit I didn't meant or didn't read something immediately. Welcome to exactly why I cut you out of this conversation.Good luck watching the videos and reading the books that might have disabused you of your stupid ass beliefs when they were mentioned to you a long time ago. I hope you find the time to watch and read and fix your magical beliefs. Hopefully before your actions or votes or beliefs have any effect on human beings and society. -----JJJ or Dejasomething or someone that I don't know who they are because it was so long ago (*this is my eye roll at anyone thinking I couldn't parse who your alts were*) then quoted one of the threads I remembered off the top of my fucking head when I started this thread that explained part of what I was talking about.Different point:

View PostRoll the Bones, on Monday, January 16th, 2012, 2:02 PM, said:

Is it either/or? What if you are an athiest libertarian? Are you just looking for religous or is it political discussion as well?
Others cleared this up without stating the obvious: "and are still a deist or a libertarian", which was in the original post."and/or" by necessity means and... or. Which, by necessity, means one or the other, or, since I used and alone earlier in the post, both. This should be clear.

View Postspeedz99, on Wednesday, January 18th, 2012, 10:27 AM, said:

It's not 2007 anymore, Spadey. I'm not sure anyone cares all that much about engaging with you about anything.
Let's see: Did I not know it wasn't 2007? Did I ever give the impression that it affected me emotionally or egotistically whether someone was engaging with me about anything? I think the answer to each of these questions is "no". This isn't the first time you've intimated I "care" about anyone "acknowledging" me here or something. I'm not sure what the appeal of being "noticed" is for most people, and clearly this extends to you or you wouldn't have brought this up as if it had anything to do with me, but I don't I don't feel it. Which part of "and want me to put effort into engaging your shit" intimated that I expected anyone to want put effort into engaging me? Other than me writing it, which took a few minutes, is there some indicator that I'm unaware of that implies I come here thinking I'm popular or something? Well, I know that isn't what is implied, because I wrote it and am not implying it. Stop wasting finger movements responding to me in this way. I have to waste my time extrapolating what you assume I'm trying to gain when I post, and it annoys me because you're only 80% stupid, and I have to respond to this stupid shit because I don't thin you're totally stupid. There are other examples I can think of off the top of my head, something about "just because you think someone is stupid doesn't mean they are stupid", or something to that effect when you were defending Shakezuma (I think it was) when he was trying to claim that there were economists that did more for humanity than Ghandi, for example. (lol)Your defense was a straw man and therefore stupid. When I use the term "stupid" it usually means "what you've said is", or "you are continually being", or "compared to me you are". It is rare I mean someone is unequivocally stupid.

View PostDJ Vu, on Wednesday, January 18th, 2012, 10:40 AM, said:

So I'm not really sure there's much for me and Spadey to discuss unless he wants to prove to me that a God cannot exist.Edit: Me and Spadey had a similar discussion starting here. He might not realize that was me because it was two names ago.
Holy fuck. In a semblance of order I respond: 1:PARSIMONY. What the FLYING FUCK are you talking about when you talk about me "PROVING TO YOU THAT A GOD CANNOT EXIST"? Jesus Christ that is an embarrassing thing to say after what we have previously discussed concerning epistemology, parsimony, the null hypothesis, occam's razor... ect... ect. After how many keystrokes I put into explaining this to you, you still say something as fucking stupid as "unless he wants to prove to me that a God cannot exist"? Really?2: Of course I realized that was you. *sigh*Again, fucking Christ. ___I skip a bunch of really stupid shit to arrive:

View PostSBriand, on Thursday, January 19th, 2012, 2:03 PM, said:

OK I will keep playing along for Brv's entertainment. It's like the hook shot joke, it just doesn't make sense to me. Faith doesn't equal concrete proof. It's just a strong belief in something. I have a strong belief that the Wings will win tonight but that won't make it so. Thus if speedz decides to strongly believe there is a heaven it won't just make it so. None of us will know regardless of our faith until we die who is right and who is wrong. I guess my other issue is why do some people care so much what other people think. I don't know what I think yet. BG seems to have his belief and that is cool. Good for him. But it seems he spends a lot of time worrying about what others believe. Do you get additional perks in the alleged afterlife for getting people to believe? I read this forum a lot. Probably more than I should. I find it all very interesting. I am not on one side completely but I am in a talkative mood today and that little dialogue interested me.
Ok, you've got a little reason at your disposal. But then you travel into "nobody knows LOL" and "WHY DO YOU CARE WHAT PEOPLE BELIEVE" territory.Fuckin hell. 1. "We don't know" does not equal "it is 50/50". "We don't' know" means "we don't know". It's that simple. We know a bunch of things. A long time ago "we didn't know" what caused lightning. That did not mean "LOL IT MIGHT BE ZEUS THROWING BOLTS OF POWER DOWN UPON OR OR IT MIGHT NOT! LOL". It meant "we didn't know" what caused lighting. It turns out, like EVERY OTHER THING WE HAVE EVER LEARNED, it wasn't Zeus or gods or fairies or wizards or magic or ghosts. It turns out it was something that existed and wasn't magic. So, the question of "WHAT WAS THE VERY BEGINNING OF EVERYTHING EVER OR STUFF WE DON'T KNOW LOL" does not mean it is 50/50 GOD IN HEAVEN or some natural explanation that doesn't require magic. It is something that doesn't require a GOD IN HEAVEN OR MAGIC OR XENU OR ZEUS OR LOL IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO EVER KNOW, or, it is, contrary to everything we have ever discovered, one of those things. If you're playing the lottery and take that as 50/50, you're not only stupid but mentally retarded. You belong in a lunatic asylum with the guys that believe their are Shih Tzu's who contain the soul of Elvis. 2. "Why do some people care what other people believe"? Oh... I don't know. It might have something to do with people flying planes into buildings based on their beliefs. Or the Crusades. Or Nazi Germany. Or Saudi Arabia. Or burning witches. Or, oh, I don't fucking know - maybe nearly every fucking candidate running for president talking about homosexuals as demons and devils and satan, or calling for violence against non-christians, or - man... I was going to go on for about a page and a half but seriously, if you can't reason out how what people "believe" affects other people you're just too stupid to engage. God I fucking hate the "just let people believe what they want" trope. It's so blatantly ignorant. I "believe" that all men named "your name" should be have their family raped and killed. I "believe" I should teach my kids that all men named "your name" should be raped and killed. Respect that. You should just respect my beliefs. I mean, there's no way I or my indoctrinated children are going to RAPE AND KILL YOUR FUCKING FAMILY based upon my "beliefs". Right, you idiot? It is such a simple matter of logic that the question "I don't know why people care what other people believe" is fucking stupid I don't even know how to proceed. ------------From here the thread devolves into terrible argument (BG, ect) and typical social engagement that has no relevance to the discussion.No one has even attempted to present a coherent argument for deism or libertarianism. I'm left addressing tangental claims and nonsense.Is anyone going to actually attempt to present a logical claim for either, or should I just abandon the site altogether? I'm ok with either despite how much my ego means to me in the mind of Speedz.
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#57 SuitedAces21

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Posted 25 January 2012 - 06:56 AM

there isnt going to be a defense of deism, because deism is stupid. well i don't think god has anything to do with the world or my life today, but the world is very complicated and because i can know that there must be a god who gave me the ability to do so.i mean that is stupid AND lazy. at least brvy and the rest have a book they're required to read and defend.
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#58 DJ Vu

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Posted 25 January 2012 - 08:04 AM

View PostSpademan, on Wednesday, January 25th, 2012, 4:08 AM, said:

2: Of course I realized that was you. *sigh*Again, fucking Christ.
Sorry?

#59 speedz99

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Posted 25 January 2012 - 11:32 AM

View PostSpademan, on Wednesday, January 25th, 2012, 5:08 AM, said:

Let's see: Did I not know it wasn't 2007? Did I ever give the impression that it affected me emotionally or egotistically whether someone was engaging with me about anything?
No, you did not not know that. No, you don't give the impression that it affects you emotionally. I only feel a particular need to say things like this when you present a thread like this as "Lucky you guys, you now get to engage me!" It's a shtick that I happen to believe should stay in posts circa 2007. I realize you couldn't care less if I'm amused, entertained, or engaged by however you choose to present yourself. Maybe it was a useless quasi-insult, but I happen to enjoy you in general, and prefer not to think of you as the guy who presents himself in that manner. 9 times out of 10 I wouldn't care or mention anything, I must have been in the mood to comment.

View PostSpademan, on Wednesday, January 25th, 2012, 5:08 AM, said:

Your defense was a straw man and therefore stupid. When I use the term "stupid" it usually means "what you've said is", or "you are continually being", or "compared to me you are". It is rare I mean someone is unequivocally stupid.
I know.Honestly, I wish I could give you a reasonable defense of deism (if only for the entertainment of a real discussion surrounding that idea). All I can come up with is the idea that a deity could come in many forms...if I want to give the title of "god" to the point of immensely dense energy that preceeded the big bang, I suppose I could be a deist. Who's to say that energy in that form couldn't have some sort of consciousness? Well, maybe scientists could say that, I don't know.
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#60 Roll the Bones

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Posted 25 January 2012 - 02:20 PM

View PostSpademan, on Saturday, January 14th, 2012, 5:32 AM, said:

This thread is for deist and libertarians to defend their belief. I'm not interested in posting here to assuage my desire to promote teh funny anymore. I'm not interested in crushing abject idiots. Too few people to observe the conversation for it to be worth it in terms of education.I'm still willing to engage general "deist" and "libertarian" types who might be bright enough to stop being an idiot.BG types need not apply. Brv need not apply, he was already given a chance, said he'd read a book or two - but never did. Henry can save his ideological nonsense. I don't like when people don't make a real effort at discussion - and if you can't read a book or study a link, or are incapable of deviating from your ideology for a discussion, you aren't making an effort that is worth my consideration.For the rest of you: if you consider yourself objective and intelligent, if you consider yourself a critical thinker who is aware of cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias, a thinker who is familiar with logic and reason... and are still a deist or a libertarian - and want me to put effort into engaging your shit - defend yourself here and I'll engage you openly, honestly and with an effort that borders giving a fuck. Good luck.
Sorry about the confusion on my part because I didn't realize that there were any deistic libertarians to speak of. The current crop, like Paul seems more thesitic, probably to get votes so who knows. The founding fathers were deists most likely, but I couldn't imagine them being anything other than athiests given the current knowledge available. And the majority of libertarians I know are athiests, so I was wondering who you were hoping to get a response from or maybe I was missunderstanding the question?
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