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Live Tourney Busto Question


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#1 bat

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 06:55 AM

Sorry if this is TL;DR!Ok, I recently played a live tournament at a West Vahegas (W Virginia) casino and was running really well until the hand Iím about to get to. Let me set it up a bit. There were around 90 some entrants and the top six pay out. We were down to 22 people and I was battling this Cuban fellow constantly. I had won about 3 out of 4 hands against him and even doubled up when he shoved on a dry board against me and I read he was playing over cards, possible high ace. I had AQ and thought, heck with it, Iím calling. I did and to my surprise he showed KJ off and I felt like Mr. Negreanu with my read. He didnít improve and I doubled up as he had me covered. Now, with that in mind the following hand played out like this:300/600/75 9 handed. Me: BB with As5s with 32K in frontFolds around to our Villian above who raises to 2500 on the Button (heís sitting on about 50K more)I callFlop: 8s 4s 6hI know I should check to the raiser, but I decide to lead out with my flush/straight draw and try to control the pot here. I make it around 3500 hoping to end this charade right here, but the Cuban guy calls.Turn: AdCool! Iíve got a pair now and a flush and straight draw! I lead out again for 6000 and again the villain calls. Now thinking back I was hoping I would show strength and he would fold, but I wish I would have checked it down to see what move he would make, or possibly check raisedÖ.but thatís part of my question to you guys.River: 6sSweet! Iíve got the nut flush and although the board is paired, it looks so innocuous that I really donít mind so I plan on checking here with the anticipation that I will raise all in on whatever bet he might makeÖÖÖ foiled! He goes all in! I tank for a couple of minutes. He off course goes in a shell. Iím thinking he mightíve hit a straight and is overbetting since he has me covered 2:1. But more than likely heís hit a flush as well is trying to bump me if he thinks Iíve got two pair or a straight. Oh well, I call and to my dismay, he shows Ac6c and busts me out of the tourney with a nice little boat. Iím devastated, but congratulate him and head out to drown my sorrows. Ok don't pull any punches. What mistakes did I make? How bad a donk am I? what should I have done any differently? I hope next time Iím able to lay down a monster and continue to fight another round at the next tourney! Thanks for your input!

#2 Mr. Sparco

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 10:49 AM

Welcome!Preflop: I don't like the call too much. His raise is over 4BB, you're out of position, and from your description he seems like the type of guy who is going to c-bet on almost any flop. Are you planning to fold on any flop you miss, or are you going to play a big pot out of position with ace high? I think I just fold this.Flop: you hit a big flop, so especially against a guy like this, I prefer a check-raise. He will often fold (which is ok since we're semibluffing) and if he raises we can get our chips in with a lot of equity. You have to decide beforehand whether you're willing to shove a missed turn if he just flats the check-raise, though - if you don't like that decision, I think just leading the flop is not that bad either. (Then again, if you don't want to play a high-variance low-EV pot, you should have probably folded preflop to begin with.)Turn: as played, betting is fine. You could consider betting a bit bigger, so it is easier to get all the chips in if we hit the flush (or even the straight) on the river. On the other hand, betting small will keep more of his flush draws and small made pairs in, which is also worth something.River: as played, call and go broke. I'm not sure if I like the check; the only thing he will bluff with seems to be a missed straight draw. Anything else that will bet will probably call your bet as well, and he will call with some hands that he would have checked back (pairs, aces, even sixes and flopped straights). You do get some value from small flushes and maybe sixes and flopped straights by check-raising instead of betting out, but I don't think that will compensate the value you lose from his weaker hands that can now check back.

#3 bat

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 01:27 PM

Very insightful, Mr. Sparco! Thank you very much for your time and input! You know I've always thought of Poker, Hold'em in general, as the slippery slope, or camel's nose if I may, of competition. I totally agree that my best option, and assuredly my demise, was the preflop decision. The unfortunate events that follow post flop almost always paint me in a corner and draw me in to the light like a wayward bug. But I guess those are part of the learning experiences and growing pains of the poker world, huh? You offered up the best piece of advice by saying fold pre-flop. My problem is that I actually like playing Ace/ 3 to 5 low suited cards for the wheel and flush value in them heads up, even out of position. Maybe I should not make that a part of my tournament repertiore and stick with it in cash games only. I would have probably folded Ace/6-9 here for the record. I guess my only rebuttal would be that after the flop I would not normally check raise without a more concrete connection with the board for fear of two more streets of action against a pot stealing, aggressive guy. I should have check/called the flop but I did have a plan on taking it down from the start, so, oh well, had to resort to Plan B. My rationale against an aggressive opponent is to keep the waters calm until at least the turn with draws and/or marginal, yet upgradable hands. This is why I regretted leading out on the turn. I would have rather check raised here, with my slight board spike, and represented more strength while possibly unleashing the aggressiveness out of my opponent. Even If I knew he was already nestled in with two pair, I think I could have shook him off more on the turn with him thinking I had the nut straight if I check raised a big margin here. If he thought I had a made hand then that would leave him with very few outs on one street of action unless he was on a flush draw as well. But who knows, I figured he was just putting me on a medium Ace (Ace ten maybe) out of the big blind and that I was just trying to knock him off his hand. Ironically at this point, I remember thinking that I hope he does have two pair if I can land my straight or flush. I've only made a final table once out of the last five tournaments I've played, so, with limited experience, I guess the only thing I'm really second guessing here is whether or not I should have laid down on his river shove? I honestly feel like I would not be able to do that against an opponent who plays semi loose and fairly aggressive in that situation, even out of position, but perhaps that's one of the many flaws in my game! Thanks again!Bat

#4 JohnnyCrash

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 01:25 PM

I think i would 3 bet pre and then bet get it in on this flop.Agreed that as played we go broke on river if he has us beat.

#5 bat

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 07:21 AM

View PostJohnnyCrash, on Friday, February 3rd, 2012, 2:25 PM, said:

I think i would 3 bet pre and then bet get it in on this flop.Agreed that as played we go broke on river if he has us beat.
Hmm maybe if I was under 20 bbs or so. But to each his own... your way definitely would've worked alot better than mine I suppose, especially since he only had middle pair/top kicker on the flop. Thanks for chiming in!

#6 MIddLES

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 01:18 AM

this guy seems pretty awful and i don't hate taking a flop against him deep w a suited ace closing the action hu here. check raise the flop for sure. what a cooler.

#7 Fadyen

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 06:59 AM

Little bit unlucky with the way this hand went but I think you're problem lies after the flop.Pre-flop: He sounds to me like a fairly aggressive player so a 4BB bet on the button is pretty standard with a wide range, however we have to remember better aces are in this range. That said I would flat it too, don't wanna show weakness and let him push you around.Flop: Now, great flop for you with the combo draws meaning you have great equity most of the time. Check to the raiser and see what he does, we want some info on him. If he bets I'm probably shoving here, getting it in good most of the time and also some better hands can fold to a shove (small pairs, and some better aces or overcards etc.). If he checks I like my hand for the moment so all is good.Turn: Seems awesome right? Wrong, we're now behind to better aces which are a large part of his range. At this point I'm probably check/folding although it's gonna annoy me giving it up. Not easy to do but we're getting into a bad spot out of position with little info on an aggressive opponent.River: If we've somehow still got to this point without completely commiting ourselves I'm check/calling almost all bets. Can't fold the nut flush but can't be sure it's good in this spot.Hindsight is always 20-20 though but hopefully you can learn a few things from this hand.
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#8 Vtlaxer09

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 01:03 PM

pretty much everything mr. sparco said concerning this hand is correct. Preflop is really spewy.Flop needs to be a check/raise so you can jam turn.Turn, you should just turn your hand into a bluffcatcher unless it improves on river. Check/calling is best.River: snap call BBFIDTS

#9 bat

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 09:28 PM

Thanks for the imput guys....I feel I've grown tremendously from that day on, and I really appreciate the feedback.Fayden-- I'm totally agreeing on the 4 bet pre...probably would have scared hiim off his ace rag! This is how I would play that hand these days more than likely..or fold. No mediocre crap! Your turn call is spot on too...it only gives me 12 outs once (i think) and less than that if he's holding a big ace. Should've played this guy more preflop than afterwards, as he was so aggressive and difficult to read....definitely helps my game and thought process..thanksVtlaxer-- thanks as well "River: snap call BBFIDTS" LULZ




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