324 replies to this topic

[donk4life]

rose fcp is dead, time to move on baby girl,whatever honey, your still the bestlol <3 and kisses xoxoox

[wsox8]

Rose, don't listen to donknasty. FCP will never die. Keep fighting!

[BillyPilgrim]

i'm still not sure whether rose is a real person.

[AmScray]

David_Sklansky, on Wednesday, December 28th, 2011, 2:27 PM, said:

The poker boom was an interesting time. You had teenagers who saw literal conmen as basically the intellectual equivalent to sports stars. And I don't just mean to that like they were just bad people. Like, the majority of them were cheaters and hustlers and straight-up robbers, and the older, dumber ones were murderers and even the odd child molester. And the speed at which they were obsoleted by the influx of smart people and the shift to a format that made it tougher to cheat...it really makes you wonder if there were any winning players before 2003 who weren't cheating or angling in one way or another.It's funny to think about, but there might have been a time back then, when DN was getting hustled for milli-millions in the big game, where he really, honestly was the "best" player in the world (minus Ivey), back before insentivized nerds had a year or two to develop the game. DN is the Stringer Bell of poker. He isn't tough enough or slimy enough to hang on the streets, and he isn't smart enough or obsessive enough to beat the best straight-up. But for one golden moment, he could have been the perfect combo. Lucky for him, he is clean enough and has enough cred and charisma to milk what's left of the spokesmodel money.

This post is absolute ****ing gin. Poker always was a magnet for the worst kind of scumbags. It was funny, when Joan Rivers made that abstract comment about knowing 'poker players' from all her years in Vegas, and what sort of dirtbags they were. The most amusing part of the whole "poker boom" show was watching these completely naive Cul-De-Sac kids wander out of the subdivision into that world, then wring hands and gnash teeth when they got their asses scalped. Online poker was one of the biggest grifts since day one. Billions of unaccounted-for dollars pouring into totally unregulated, offshore concerns run by intensely shady, private entities. The funniest thing wasn't just that it happened... or that it continues to happen yet these naive ****ers still refuse to see it. It's the bullshit narratives people built up around online poker to convince themselves that just this one time, human nature no longer applied, because, after all! We were dealing with poker players! If you can't trust someone like Doyle Brunson....

[serge]

very good post..RoseNeed to face the fact that FCP will never be the same as it was.There is a big combination things for this:- the death of online poker in the US.- the downfall of televised poker(volume of shows etc)- Daniel's lack of participation.....This isnt his fault at all, lets face it there is not as much to participate.- People leaving poker all together, mainly due to first point.We can still appreciate FCP for what its...Its a huge part of my life still, as the hockey forum is a great place to hang out..I have made a ton of real life friends that will be around for a lifetime.Im not sure how the other online forums are(2 +2) but I would be willing to bet that participation is down there as well..FCP isnt dead...GO FCP

[rcgs59]

serge, on Thursday, December 29th, 2011, 9:18 AM, said:

very good post..RoseNeed to face the fact that FCP will never be the same as it was.There is a big combination things for this:- the death of online poker in the US.- the downfall of televised poker(volume of shows etc)- Daniel's lack of participation.....This isnt his fault at all, lets face it there is not as much to participate.- People leaving poker all together, mainly due to first point.We can still appreciate FCP for what its...Its a huge part of my life still, as the hockey forum is a great place to hang out..I have made a ton of real life friends that will be around for a lifetime.Im not sure how the other online forums are(2 +2) but I would be willing to bet that participation is down there as well..FCP isnt dead...GO FCP

Yes I realize Black Friday killed most of the site however Daniel not posting here once a month is totally sad. There are things to post about. The game has changed big time on line. So why can't he face the fact that small ball game might need to change. Most of the principals to small ball still work and are great, but now I am seeing people just play everything and positioning does not matter. thus how do we change our game to beat the suck outs. Fine I will let this go, but to bad Daniel has given up here. Oh seeing the wsop via video and TV I have notice changes in that game too, but Who cares. :(Like Serge said I have meet some very good people here, and they will always be my friends. and Like Chris stated I prefer this site over 2+2 because of the smallness and the more social part of it.Like Serge said Go FCPSerge it was nice to play with you yesterday. I love the rivalry.Most of all I miss some of my American friends. I do play with a few on merge but still not the same

[serge]

rcgs59, on Thursday, December 29th, 2011, 9:58 AM, said:

Yes I realize Black Friday killed most of the site however Daniel not posting here once a month is totally sad. There are things to post about. The game has changed big time on line. So why can't he face the fact that small ball game might need to change. Most of the principals to small ball still work and are great, but now I am seeing people just play everything and positioning does not matter. thus how do we change our game to beat the suck outs. Fine I will let this go, but to bad Daniel has given up here. Oh seeing the wsop via video and TV I have notice changes in that game too, but Who cares. :(Like Serge said I have meet some very good people here, and they will always be my friends. and Like Chris stated I prefer this site over 2+2 because of the smallness and the more social part of it.Like Serge said Go FCPSerge it was nice to play with you yesterday. I love the rivalry.Most of all I miss some of my American friends. I do play with a few on merge but still not the same

I should of won yesterday..I was very short stacked then built up to a nice stack with 5 left..Then flopped a set, and lost when a one card flush hit the river.

[BigDMcGee]

AmScray, on Thursday, December 29th, 2011, 2:06 AM, said:

This post is absolute ****ing gin. Poker always was a magnet for the worst kind of scumbags. It was funny, when Joan Rivers made that abstract comment about knowing 'poker players' from all her years in Vegas, and what sort of dirtbags they were. The most amusing part of the whole "poker boom" show was watching these completely naive Cul-De-Sac kids wander out of the subdivision into that world, then wring hands and gnash teeth when they got their asses scalped. Online poker was one of the biggest grifts since day one. Billions of unaccounted-for dollars pouring into totally unregulated, offshore concerns run by intensely shady, private entities. The funniest thing wasn't just that it happened... or that it continues to happen yet these naive ****ers still refuse to see it. It's the bullshit narratives people built up around online poker to convince themselves that just this one time, human nature no longer applied, because, after all! We were dealing with poker players! If you can't trust someone like Doyle Brunson....

I used to beat the drum for years that Doyle Brunson was a cheat, and through simple logic most of the old school vegas pros were likely cheats and I got shouted down by Rounders fanboys who had signed copies of super system and said everything I was saying was just slander. And I just laughed and shook my head. These days, I've seen you make several long posts on the issue and no one even bothers to speak out against them. Maybe it's just because FCP is so dead that there's no one left even to take issue. But I think part of it is that people aren't quite as naive as you think they are anymore. In 2007? No doubt . But after online company after online company rips people off, Poker Legend after Poker legend are revealed to be irrefutable thieves that the cognitive dissonance required to defend these degenerates simply becomes too difficult to maintain.

[JubilantLankyLad]

rcgs59, on Thursday, December 29th, 2011, 8:58 AM, said:

Yes I realize Black Friday killed most of the site however Daniel not posting here once a month is totally sad. There are things to post about. The game has changed big time on line. So why can't he face the fact that small ball game might need to change. Most of the principals to small ball still work and are great, but now I am seeing people just play everything and positioning does not matter. thus how do we change our game to beat the suck outs. Fine I will let this go, but to bad Daniel has given up here. Oh seeing the wsop via video and TV I have notice changes in that game too, but Who cares.

Rose if you ofn't yet figured out how to play people who play junk from up front and rely on suckouts to win, I don't think you ever will.

[Dread Aidan]

JubilantLankyLad, on Thursday, December 29th, 2011, 9:27 AM, said:

Rose if you ofn't yet figured out how to play people who play junk from up front and rely on suckouts to win, I don't think you ever will.

Haha.If Daniel would just post more, she would so totally learn.

[David_Sklansky]

AmScray, on Thursday, December 29th, 2011, 3:06 AM, said:

This post is absolute ****ing gin. Poker always was a magnet for the worst kind of scumbags. It was funny, when Joan Rivers made that abstract comment about knowing 'poker players' from all her years in Vegas, and what sort of dirtbags they were. The most amusing part of the whole "poker boom" show was watching these completely naive Cul-De-Sac kids wander out of the subdivision into that world, then wring hands and gnash teeth when they got their asses scalped. Online poker was one of the biggest grifts since day one. Billions of unaccounted-for dollars pouring into totally unregulated, offshore concerns run by intensely shady, private entities. The funniest thing wasn't just that it happened... or that it continues to happen yet these naive ****ers still refuse to see it. It's the bullshit narratives people built up around online poker to convince themselves that just this one time, human nature no longer applied, because, after all! We were dealing with poker players! If you can't trust someone like Doyle Brunson....

Yeah, I hate the online side of it though. It's the Walmart of poker scams, and killed the American dream of getting a small crew, scamming a little living, and settling down with a LV townie, whose life-long battle with a now-suppressed meth addiction has left her more or less unable to feel joy.Nowadays you have to be well connected and rich to break into the game. Phil Ivey killed the little guy.

BigDMcGee, on Thursday, December 29th, 2011, 12:23 PM, said:

I used to beat the drum for years that Doyle Brunson was a cheat, and through simple logic most of the old school vegas pros were likely cheats and I got shouted down by Rounders fanboys who had signed copies of super system and said everything I was saying was just slander. And I just laughed and shook my head. These days, I've seen you make several long posts on the issue and no one even bothers to speak out against them. Maybe it's just because FCP is so dead that there's no one left even to take issue. But I think part of it is that people aren't quite as naive as you think they are anymore. In 2007? No doubt . But after online company after online company rips people off, Poker Legend after Poker legend are revealed to be irrefutable thieves that the cognitive dissonance required to defend these degenerates simply becomes too difficult to maintain.

Yeah, as cynical as I am, I'm sure I picked that drum up from you. I think I followed the ol' free market defense of convincing myself that it was in their interest to keep their noses somewhat clean and self-police. What I failed to realize was that even if there were free money for those people if they kept it honest, and even if there were direct consequences for the shit they pulled, and even if they understood it all...it's like the scorpion and the frog. It's why Cam Newton steals laptops.

[DiamondDixie]

BigDMcGee, on Thursday, December 29th, 2011, 12:23 PM, said:

I used to beat the drum for years that Doyle Brunson was a cheat, and through simple logic most of the old school vegas pros were likely cheats and I got shouted down by Rounders fanboys who had signed copies of super system and said everything I was saying was just slander. And I just laughed and shook my head. These days, I've seen you make several long posts on the issue and no one even bothers to speak out against them. Maybe it's just because FCP is so dead that there's no one left even to take issue. But I think part of it is that people aren't quite as naive as you think they are anymore. In 2007? No doubt . But after online company after online company rips people off, Poker Legend after Poker legend are revealed to be irrefutable thieves that the cognitive dissonance required to defend these degenerates simply becomes too difficult to maintain.

I have to say when Jesus screwed everyone all others were suspect from that point forward. I wasn't surprised by anything Howard did but Jesus, OMG! For now I hate to say FCP will remain a bit of a ghost town but if online poker gets properly regulated there will be a massive new boom and FCP will return to glory once more. Skype has hurt forums as well because so many people have formed Skype groups and post hands and ask questions and such there instead of posting on forums as they did before. 2p2 and P5s is still doing fine from what I can tell but even the volume is down there.Playing on Merge pretty much sucks but it's the best there is for now and until I go broke, which may be later this week, I guess that's where I'll play. I'm pretty close to giving it up, which I would of never thought possible before Black Friday but as shaggy said, poker has lost a lot of it's appeal now.

[David_Sklansky]

DiamondDixie, on Thursday, December 29th, 2011, 4:13 PM, said:

...but if online poker gets properly regulated there will be a massive new boom and FCP will return to glory once more.

Let's not hold our breath there. People are all convincing themselves that poker getting shut down was a blessing in disguise, and that regulation and decriminalization is coming. I have my doubts. Outside bird law, I don't really know enough to speculate too confidently about much of anything that goes on, but I will be shocked it the US market comes back any time soon.I think it's mostly a fantasy. I've seen a lot of American pros who were rat-fucked by Black Friday, but the sick thing is that as screwed as they are, few are emotionally able to move on. I'm not sure if it's that poker is such a disgusting way to live that they all had to construct this false ideal that working for a living is an unacceptable alternative, or if it's just that the people who would get involved in something like that are just extremely likely to have all sorts of social anxieties and complexes by default, but the result is pretty sad. I know people with families and no savings, who are basically punting their future, trying to scrape by on pennies from a few fly-by-night sites or Bodog, who are moving away to Canada and Mexico, basically delaying the search for a sustainable solution, all in the hopes that their pipe dream of a law pops up, and they can go back to making an unimpressive amount of money and feeling independent. There are probably kids who won't be able to afford college as a direct result of the belief that poker is coming back soon.Poker really is a sick trap for a lot of people, that lets them do things and believe things that just couldn't normally make sense. It's an addiction to many, which further makes it funny that we would glorify what these people do, and pretend it's all just savvy math wizzes who are too smart to work.

[AmScray]

DiamondDixie, on Thursday, December 29th, 2011, 2:13 PM, said:

I have to say when Jesus screwed everyone all others were suspect from that point forward. I wasn't surprised by anything Howard did but Jesus, OMG!

Did you know Howard or Jesus personally? See, that, right there, is how they got away with this. The number of people who bought into the bullshit 'persona' of poker players as anything other than the angle-shooting, grifting scumbags that they are was just ****ing amazing. What was most amusing was that poker players are/were probably the most dishonorable, disreputable bucket of shit subculture on earth, who found themselves shockingly elevated to the status of 'noble gamesman' in the eyes of a bunch of tragically naive mother****ers who arrived with high hopes and wallets open. They (poker players) are many things, but dumb is not one of them. Matter of fact, the three traits that are universal to all poker players are an aversion to real work, a keen understanding of the fundamentals of human nature (beyond what most people don't possess) and well above-average general intelligence. They knew this new-found public image was manna from ****ing heaven, given what a poker player must do to pay his bills.

[BigDMcGee]

AmScray, on Thursday, December 29th, 2011, 3:41 PM, said:

Did you know Howard or Jesus personally? See, that, right there, is how they got away with this. The number of people who bought into the bullshit 'persona' of poker players as anything other than the angle-shooting, grifting scumbags that they are was just ****ing amazing. What was most amusing was that poker players are/were probably the most dishonorable, disreputable bucket of shit subculture on earth, who found themselves shockingly elevated to the status of 'noble gamesman' in the eyes of a bunch of tragically naive mother****ers who arrived with high hopes and wallets open. They (poker players) are many things, but dumb is not one of them. Matter of fact, the two traits that are universal to all poker players are an aversion to real work and well above average intelligence. They knew this new-found public image was manna from ****ing heaven, given what a poker player must do to pay his bills.

but.. but but.. Jesus is an computer engineer!!! He's a line dancer!!! He's not a jew like Lederer! How could he possibly be a scumbag?

[AmScray]

BigDMcGee, on Thursday, December 29th, 2011, 2:45 PM, said:

but.. but but.. Jesus is an computer engineer!!! He's a line dancer!!! He's not a jew like Lederer! How could he possibly be a scumbag?

Don't forget his kindly, humble demeanor! "When Satan comes, he will not have horns. He will come as Billy Graham..."

[David_Sklansky]

AmScray, on Thursday, December 29th, 2011, 4:41 PM, said:

Did you know Howard or Jesus personally? See, that, right there, is how they got away with this. The number of people who bought into the bullshit 'persona' of poker players as anything other than the angle-shooting, grifting scumbags that they are was just ****ing amazing. What was most amusing was that poker players are/were probably the most dishonorable, disreputable bucket of shit subculture on earth, who found themselves shockingly elevated to the status of 'noble gamesman' in the eyes of a bunch of tragically naive mother****ers who arrived with high hopes and wallets open. They (poker players) are many things, but dumb is not one of them. Matter of fact, the two traits that are universal to all poker players are an aversion to real work and well above average intelligence. They knew this new-found public image was manna from ****ing heaven, given what a poker player must do to pay his bills.

By nature, these people are just phenomenal at that shit. That's what they were good at. They may have sucked at poker, but what they are is fantastic liars, which is a WAY more adaptable skill. Amarillo Slim convinced DN that he didn't molest his grand daughter, after all that went down. Just a straight-up lie and appeal to our human weaknesses, and he comvinced a professional hustler in his own right that the sky was green. It really goes to show you how many times they can retool their skillset and fool you again, when people who had the reputation they had can convince you to wire billions of dollars to the Caribbean, and defend them against skepticism all the while, as the signs all start to appear. Durrr may be done after poker, but a true scumbag like Ivey will live on, because what he can do has a billion more uses.

[The Ocho]

So do people actually think Doyle Brunson didn't cheat at cards?

[FCP Bob]

There have always been a large number of scumbags in the poker world and there always will be in anything that involves gambling and large amounts of money.A great read about what poker was like before the internet boom is Jesse May's novel "Shut Up and Deal". It's fiction but based on his real life experiences in the card rooms of Atlantic City mostly. The characters are based on real people and I met a couple of them back in the day and while it's fiction it really shows what the poker culture was like.

[TwstdWrstr]

People, we are losing focus here. Let's get back to the point of the thread. Im afraid this forum is well beyond its peak and is never going to come anywhere close to what it was. If DN promoted some yes it would get more traffic but without an online card room attached its pretty pointless because there is no motivation. Other forums already passed it by years ago (as far as a strategy destination) and most of the good to great players no longer post here in regard to actual poker discussion. Personally I have made some friendships here with people from all over (savagerebel, nvrquit, lurbz, tbrick412, kobe2odom8 to name a few) and life goes on. This forum could be resurrected in the future if online poker reopens fully to the US market but until then this is just how its going to be.That being said a site redesign is long overdue and would be nice.The only solution I have is after I win the lottery, the Nobel Peace prize and the Calder trophy for NHL rookie of the year at age 36 I will be so famous I could wear my FCP on tv all the time and that would clearly drive traffic back to the site. However, this is clearly such a ludicrous scenario it'll never happen. That hat is never showing up.