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The Official End Times Thread


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#1 Balloon guy

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 07:24 PM

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The Vatican called on Monday for the establishment of a “global public authority” and a “central world bank” to rule over financial institutions that have become outdated and often ineffective in dealing fairly with crises. The document from the Vatican’s Justice and Peace department should please the “Occupy Wall Street” demonstrators and similar movements around the world who have protested against the economic downturn.“Towards Reforming the International Financial and Monetary Systems in the Context of a Global Public Authority,” was at times very specific, calling, for example, for taxation measures on financial transactions. “The economic and financial crisis which the world is going through calls everyone, individuals and peoples, to examine in depth the principles and the cultural and moral values at the basis of social coexistence,” it said.... It called for the establishment of “a supranational authority” with worldwide scope and “universal jurisdiction” to guide economic policies and decisions.
Haven't brushed up on my eschatology in a while, but this makes me want to though.
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#2 BaseJester

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 08:00 PM

Beats me. What does your horoscope say?
If everybody is thinking the same thing, then somebody isn't thinking.
- General George Patton

#3 Balloon guy

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 07:39 AM

so I plan on going into some areas of end time study here.I thought I would start with my perspective.When I was a young Christian I got some good advice about end time studies: "There is a lot of money in end time books"I have always remembered this whenever I see something like Harold Camping's book 1994, or the Left Behind series of horribly written books.I was impacted greatly though by the book The Pre-Wrath Rapture by Rosenthal.It tied in Matthew 24-25 with Revelations 7 seals. The first 6 seals fit very nicely with the explanation Christ gave when asked "What will be the sign of Your coming?"As such I believe that Christians will endure the first half of the 7 year tribulation. The first half is all man punishing man, the second half is God punishing man. "We are not appointed unto Wrath, but to obtain salvation...".This I think also ties in very well with the verse that says the Anti-Christ will fool 'even the elect'. The western church has been preaching pre-trib rapture, which will allow many to argue that if we're still here, than this guy can't be the anti-Christ.I will start tonight showing the connection between Matthew and Revelation.
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#4 Balloon guy

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 09:50 PM

Matthew 24:1 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 “Do you see all these things?” he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.” 3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?” 4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains. 9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. 15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again. 22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time. 26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather. 29 “Immediately after the distress of those days “‘the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’[b] 30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[c] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.[d] 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
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#5 Balloon guy

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 09:52 PM

Revelations 6:1 I watched as the Lamb opened the first of the seven seals. Then I heard one of the four living creatures say in a voice like thunder, “Come!” 2 I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest. 3 When the Lamb opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature say, “Come!” 4 Then another horse came out, a fiery red one. Its rider was given power to take peace from the earth and to make people kill each other. To him was given a large sword. 5 When the Lamb opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, “Come!” I looked, and there before me was a black horse! Its rider was holding a pair of scales in his hand. 6 Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying, “Two pounds[a] of wheat for a day’s wages,[b] and six pounds[c] of barley for a day’s wages,[d] and do not damage the oil and the wine!” 7 When the Lamb opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say, “Come!” 8 I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth. 9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10 They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” 11 Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters,[e] were killed just as they had been. 12 I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, 13 and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind. 14 The heavens receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place. 15 Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and everyone else, both slave and free, hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16 They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us[f] from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of their[g] wrath has come, and who can withstand it?”
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#6 Balloon guy

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 09:53 PM

Read those passages one after the other and you see my position for a mid-trib rapture.
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#7 phlegm

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 10:05 PM

View PostBalloon guy, on Monday, October 24th, 2011, 8:24 PM, said:

Haven't brushed up on my eschatology in a while, but this makes me want to though.
What means eschatology?
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#8 Balloon guy

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 10:18 PM

View Postphlegm, on Thursday, October 27th, 2011, 11:05 PM, said:

What means eschatology?
Study of the end.Or in Bible speak, the study of the Return of Christ.
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#9 BaseJester

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 04:23 AM

View PostBalloon guy, on Friday, October 28th, 2011, 1:53 AM, said:

Read those passages one after the other and you see my position for a mid-trib rapture.

View PostRevelation, on Friday, October 28th, 2011, 1:52 AM, said:

5 When the Lamb opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, “Come!” I looked, and there before me was a black horse! Its rider was holding a pair of scales in his hand. 6 Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying, “Two pounds of wheat for a day’s wages, and six pounds of barley for a day’s wages, and do not damage the oil and the wine!”
Yes, it's all clear to me now.
If everybody is thinking the same thing, then somebody isn't thinking.
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#10 BaseJester

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 04:41 AM

Why do you think God has inspired these prophesies that are vague enough people argue about whether or not those events have already transpired? What do you think his purpose is for the misdirection?
If everybody is thinking the same thing, then somebody isn't thinking.
- General George Patton

#11 Balloon guy

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 07:36 AM

View PostBaseJester, on Friday, October 28th, 2011, 5:41 AM, said:

Why do you think God has inspired these prophesies that are vague enough people argue about whether or not those events have already transpired? What do you think his purpose is for the misdirection?
So no one would know the day or the hour?orSo they could set the stage for thousands of years of people they have no connection with them to have religious power over other people they do not know?
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#12 Roll the Bones

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 09:03 AM

View PostBalloon guy, on Friday, October 28th, 2011, 1:52 AM, said:

Revelations 6:1 I watched as the Lamb opened the first of the seven seals. Then I heard one of the four living creatures say in a voice like thunder, “Come!” 2 I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest. 3 When the Lamb opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature say, “Come!” 4 Then another horse came out, a fiery red one. Its rider was given power to take peace from the earth and to make people kill each other. To him was given a large sword. 5 When the Lamb opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, “Come!” I looked, and there before me was a black horse! Its rider was holding a pair of scales in his hand. 6 Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying, “Two pounds[a] of wheat for a day’s wages,[b] and six pounds[c] of barley for a day’s wages,[d] and do not damage the oil and the wine!” 7 When the Lamb opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say, “Come!” 8 I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth. 9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10 They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” 11 Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters,[e] were killed just as they had been. 12 I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, 13 and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind. 14 The heavens receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place. 15 Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and everyone else, both slave and free, hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16 They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us[f] from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of their[g] wrath has come, and who can withstand it?”
You know, I can't help it but I think kids today are really missing out. This shit is fantastic. Why bother with Harry Potter? But I admit that when I saw the thread title and then started reading the quotes it reminded me of a passage in another great book I recently read, Exit Ghost by Philip Roth and a fantastic line that stuck with me,Oh, to wish what is into what is not, other than on the page!
As Eric Idle wrote: You know, you come from nothing - you're going back to nothing. What have you lost? Nothing!

#13 Balloon guy

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 09:16 AM

So some interesting things to think about as they relate to end times.I was reading an article from the Naval Observatory regarding the Mayan calender's 2012 'prediction'. It did a really really good job of showing the entire notion of December 2012 being the end is so Hollywood that its ridiculous.But one thing I was interested in was that the Mayan's had a 20 year cycle and a 360 day year.Every day was called a K'in20 K'in was called a Winal20 Winals was called a Tun20 Tun's was called a K'atunand 20 K'atuns is called a B'ak'tunSo one B'ak'tun is 144,000 days.December 12th, 2012 is just the end of a B'ak'tun, there are other rocks with predictions for dates much later in Mayan culture, so they never saw this day as the end.But the number 144,000 has a very real Bible connection.Along with many other religions.I found it an interesting point that I have expanded no effort into making it fit into the end times of the Bible.But the Pope asking for a world bank is a really obvious connection to Revelations 13:1616 It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, 17 so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name.The Bible predicted that no one could buy or sell without a mark thousands of years before RFID chipsIt predicted that an event would happen and the whole world would see it as it happened long before satellite television It also predicted that the nations would rise up against Israel, even though Israel as a nation did not exist for 2,000 years.Israel is here now, satellite is here, RFID chips are here. This is why many believe the end is nigh.
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#14 Roll the Bones

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 10:21 AM

Oh shit! Just out of curiousity I checked my right hand under an ultraviolet light and realized that I'm screwed! BG is right! IT'S THE END OF TIMES!!!!!!!!!! Posted Image
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#15 vbnautilus

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 11:17 AM

Does the bible say when this thread will end?

#16 BaseJester

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 01:59 PM

View PostBalloon guy, on Friday, October 28th, 2011, 11:36 AM, said:

So no one would know the day or the hour?
It seems to me that doing nothing would fulfill this purpose even better and require less effort.
  • The initial state is that no one knows the day or the hour.
  • Then we write a bunch of gibberish.
  • The final state is that no one knows the day or the hour.
I mean, you're not suggesting that people did know the hour and God successfully confused them with Revelation, right?
If everybody is thinking the same thing, then somebody isn't thinking.
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#17 Balloon guy

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 09:57 PM

View PostBaseJester, on Friday, October 28th, 2011, 2:59 PM, said:

It seems to me that doing nothing would fulfill this purpose even better and require less effort.
  • The initial state is that no one knows the day or the hour.
  • Then we write a bunch of gibberish.
  • The final state is that no one knows the day or the hour.
I mean, you're not suggesting that people did know the hour and God successfully confused them with Revelation, right?
Being ignorant of what Revelations means or the value of prophetic writings doesn't equal reading gibberish.
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#18 Balloon guy

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 09:58 PM

View Postvbnautilus, on Friday, October 28th, 2011, 12:17 PM, said:

Does the bible say when this thread will end?
December 12, 2012
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#19 BaseJester

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 04:53 AM

View PostBalloon guy, on Saturday, October 29th, 2011, 1:57 AM, said:

Being ignorant of what Revelations means or the value of prophetic writings doesn't equal reading gibberish.
I'm speaking specifically of the parts of Revelation that you said are designed intentionally so that the reader doesn't know things after he reads them. And the question is, why?
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#20 Roll the Bones

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 09:49 AM

Ironically, I was talking to a member of my bookclub last night and I forgot the latest selection for today is Forged- by Ehrman. I haven't read it yet because I couldn't go and have others on my list, but we discussed it a little. He is a former minister so he is obviously much more up on the NT than I, but he suggested I ask you about 1 and 2 Thessalonians. Apparently it is widely thought that (2) is a forgery or what is called in nicer circles, pseudepigraphy. Partly because the differences in frequency of words between these letters and others attributed to Paul, and the different meanings that some of the words have even when the same terms are used. It is thought that 2 is a not written by Paul as the bible implies, but is written in a way partly to discount 1, which says the "end of time is now". Meh, I'll give a couple things I found on the subject.2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.(2:2-9) “The day of Christ is at hand.” If Paul wrote this letter (and many scholars think he didn’‘t, then he is changing his mind about the timing of the Christ’‘s return. The day of the Lord is no longer at hand. In fact it’‘s nowhere near. Many things must happen first: there will be a great “falling away”, a “man of sin” will be reveled, and Satan will show off his power by doing all kinds of signs and wonders. (2:2) “Be not soon shaken in mind ... by letter as from us.”What letter is being referred to here? Is it 1 Thessalonians? If so, then should Christians not read it to avoid being “shaken in mind?”And review of Forged,http://exploringourm...art-ehrman.htmlChapter 3 begins with fabricated stories about Paul before turning to its principal topic, forgeries written in the name of Paul, working its way from post-NT examples to the New Testament itself. Within the New Testament, Ehrman begins with the Pastoral Epistles, providing a brief overview as well as a history of scholarly suspicions about the authenticity of the letters and a discussion of their relationship to one another. Ehrman mentions the differences in frequency of words between these letters and others attributed to Paul, and the different meanings that some of the words have even when the same terms are used. The relationship between the Pastorals and the Acts of Paul is also discussed.I found particularly interesting Ehrman’s discussion of 2 Thessalonians. While many English translations give the impression that this epistle is arguing against some who say that “the day of the Lord has already come,” Ehrman renders the phrase in 2:2 as “the day of the Lord is at hand,” which is a possible rendering of ἐνέστηκεν ἡ ἡμέρα τοῦ κυρίου and one that some commentators have preferred. Understood in this way, it becomes possible that the target of 2 Thessalonians may well be 1 Thessalonians, with the later forger attempting to counter the authentic Pauline letter’s expectation of an imminent end.
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