Jump to content


Creation Evolution Debate


  • Please log in to reply
182 replies to this topic

#21 BaseJester

BaseJester

    Poker Forum Veteran

  • Members
  • 2,109 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Castle
  • Interests:Juggling. Ventriloquism. Story-telling.
  • Favorite Poker Game:The quintain

Posted 10 September 2011 - 10:19 AM

View Postbrvheart, on Saturday, September 10th, 2011, 1:54 PM, said:

If God didn't make the Sun to "govern the day and night" until the 4th "day".... how long were the "days" prior to the sun's creation?
I stand corrected. Genesis is gibberish and therefore any comparison to reality is meaningless.
If everybody is thinking the same thing, then somebody isn't thinking.
- General George Patton

#22 Balloon guy

Balloon guy

    Deplorable Lives Matter

  • Members
  • 24,409 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:So Cal
  • Interests:Cigars, Flying, Golf, Bible
  • Favorite Poker Game:Golf

Posted 10 September 2011 - 11:06 AM

I really like Vox Day, he really cracks me up.Finding that he drives people crazy just makes me get him even more.And his book Irrational Atheist just seals the door on any chance that the new atheist is anything but a group of crack pots grasping at straws.
I use my cigar smoke as idiot repellent

Most bad government has come out of too much government. Thomas Jefferson

#23 brvheart

brvheart

    I'm the best.

  • Members
  • 25,322 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Toyko, Japan
  • Interests:Playing in nuclear fallout.
  • Favorite Poker Game:I play 100/200 live with my best friend Jason.

Posted 10 September 2011 - 12:23 PM

View PostBaseJester, on Saturday, September 10th, 2011, 1:19 PM, said:

I stand corrected. Genesis is gibberish and therefore any comparison to reality is meaningless.
... some day, BaseJester. Some day.

View PostiZuma, on 20 August 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

napa I was jesus christing suited, you guys just slipped in before me.

View PostEssay21, on 25 February 2013 - 08:32 PM, said:

.

#24 speedz99

speedz99

    It don't matter to Jesus.

  • Members
  • 28,085 posts
  • Location:North Hollywood

Posted 10 September 2011 - 02:17 PM

View PostDread Aidan, on Friday, September 9th, 2011, 12:39 PM, said:

Speedz, confirm?
Well, it's a bit tricky. A doctor can be a great internist with a full grasp on the intricacies of the body's physiology and associated pathophysiologies and the appropriate treatments without giving a shit about evolution. A surgeon is an extremely well-educated mechanic who doesn't have to care about how we evolved any given bone, muscle, nerve, or vessel. But for either of the two main branches of medicine to advance, medical research has to delve into the inner workings of our bodies at a more and more microscopic scale...from the body, to organs, to cells, to genes, etc. To truly understand how the body runs at a genetic and molecular level, one pretty much has to believe in and understand the mechanics behind evolution. It is basically impossible to understand 'how life works' on that level without realizing that of course all living things evolve. That said, it is certainly feasible for someone to say, "Sure, we evolve, but maybe we were put here at a certain level of evolution by some godlike creature and things moved on from there." I'm not sure if that confirms what I was supposed to confirm.

View PostTactical Bear, on Friday, September 9th, 2011, 11:47 PM, said:

Family --- Best Friend -- Girlfriend ---- Steve Martin -- Random Whores ---- Friends -- (collection of people I don't mind) ---- (collection of people I never think about) ---- (collection of people I mind) ---- (collection of people I actively dislike) -------------- (collection of people whom the mere thought of which leads to an involuntary sneer) ----- tim wakefield ----- Nazis --- Jews ----------------- MrDannyG
This was very funny.

View PostTactical Bear, on Friday, September 9th, 2011, 11:47 PM, said:

EDIT: I've read a few thousand more words from that website since I originally posted. It's clear to me now: I am embarrassingly slow to recognize obvious satire.
Yeah, I think BG will like the guy a lot less when it's revealed that he's really just a hilarious atheist that found a way to amuse himself and make money.
You got a date Wednesday, baby!

#25 BaseJester

BaseJester

    Poker Forum Veteran

  • Members
  • 2,109 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Castle
  • Interests:Juggling. Ventriloquism. Story-telling.
  • Favorite Poker Game:The quintain

Posted 10 September 2011 - 02:25 PM

View Postspeedz99, on Saturday, September 10th, 2011, 6:17 PM, said:

Yeah, I think BG will like the guy a lot less when it's revealed that he's really just a hilarious atheist that found a way to amuse himself and make money.
Unless BG is just a hilarious atheist that found a way to amuse himself and not make money.
If everybody is thinking the same thing, then somebody isn't thinking.
- General George Patton

#26 speedz99

speedz99

    It don't matter to Jesus.

  • Members
  • 28,085 posts
  • Location:North Hollywood

Posted 10 September 2011 - 02:28 PM

View PostBaseJester, on Saturday, September 10th, 2011, 2:25 PM, said:

Unless BG is just a hilarious atheist that found a way to amuse himself and not make money.
Innnnteresting...
You got a date Wednesday, baby!

#27 timwakefield

timwakefield

    I haven't got the time time

  • Members
  • 14,413 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Boston
  • Favorite Poker Game:Boxmaha

Posted 10 September 2011 - 03:12 PM

I haven't read any more of the blog - but it can't really be satire, can it? Just looking at one or 2 entries on his list of "Non-Fiction Downloads," it appears he's written hundreds of thousands of words on the subject (and other random subjects) and has hundreds and hundreds of followers and gets thousands of comments.
Karl: She was a bit -- what's the word that you can use, cuz I don't wanna offend anyone?
Steve: Was she a homeless person?
Karl: Yeah but sort of mental homeless.

#28 Balloon guy

Balloon guy

    Deplorable Lives Matter

  • Members
  • 24,409 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:So Cal
  • Interests:Cigars, Flying, Golf, Bible
  • Favorite Poker Game:Golf

Posted 10 September 2011 - 04:13 PM

I promise I am perfecting the 'how not to make money' part.Vox Day is awesome.Which is why I told Tim he needed to read a bit more about him instead of judging him from a single sentence.As far as the possibility that he is a closet atheist, he's much too intelligent to be an atheist.And unlike the high priest of the new atheism, he presents his book for free, and makes his thoughts accessible to any who want to discuss it with him.Read it and judge for yourself if he doesn't show Dawkins, Harris and the other guy to be the empty suits they are.btw, his site is best understood reading the FAQ section, where he basically says: If you disagree respectfully, with intelligence, I will respond in kind, and if you start throwing down, I love to throw down.
I use my cigar smoke as idiot repellent

Most bad government has come out of too much government. Thomas Jefferson

#29 brvheart

brvheart

    I'm the best.

  • Members
  • 25,322 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Toyko, Japan
  • Interests:Playing in nuclear fallout.
  • Favorite Poker Game:I play 100/200 live with my best friend Jason.

Posted 10 September 2011 - 04:43 PM

View Posttimwakefield, on Saturday, September 10th, 2011, 6:12 PM, said:

but it can't really be satire, can it?
LimbaughGod

View PostiZuma, on 20 August 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

napa I was jesus christing suited, you guys just slipped in before me.

View PostEssay21, on 25 February 2013 - 08:32 PM, said:

.

#30 vbnautilus

vbnautilus

    psychonaut

  • Members
  • 10,326 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:venice beach, ca

Posted 10 September 2011 - 11:18 PM

View Postbrvheart, on Saturday, September 10th, 2011, 10:54 AM, said:

I disagree. I think you can have a literal view of Genesis and still believe in evolution.
I can't decode the rest of your post, so kindly let me know if you are joking with this comment before I make a serious reply? Thanks.

#31 speedz99

speedz99

    It don't matter to Jesus.

  • Members
  • 28,085 posts
  • Location:North Hollywood

Posted 11 September 2011 - 08:20 AM

View Postvbnautilus, on Saturday, September 10th, 2011, 11:18 PM, said:

I can't decode the rest of your post, so kindly let me know if you are joking with this comment before I make a serious reply? Thanks.
I can see believing that everything was put here by god with the mechanisms for further evolution in place. That's certainly more reasonable than, "Evolution is STUPID and people who believe in it are IDIOTS!"
You got a date Wednesday, baby!

#32 Balloon guy

Balloon guy

    Deplorable Lives Matter

  • Members
  • 24,409 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:So Cal
  • Interests:Cigars, Flying, Golf, Bible
  • Favorite Poker Game:Golf

Posted 11 September 2011 - 09:19 AM

View Postspeedz99, on Sunday, September 11th, 2011, 9:20 AM, said:

I can see believing that everything was put here by god with the mechanisms for further evolution in place. That's certainly more reasonable than, "Evolution is STUPID and people who believe in it are IDIOTS!"
But evolution is stupid....
I use my cigar smoke as idiot repellent

Most bad government has come out of too much government. Thomas Jefferson

#33 vbnautilus

vbnautilus

    psychonaut

  • Members
  • 10,326 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:venice beach, ca

Posted 11 September 2011 - 07:15 PM

View Postspeedz99, on Sunday, September 11th, 2011, 9:20 AM, said:

I can see believing that everything was put here by god with the mechanisms for further evolution in place. That's certainly more reasonable than, "Evolution is STUPID and people who believe in it are IDIOTS!"
Yeah, but its not what Genesis says.

#34 speedz99

speedz99

    It don't matter to Jesus.

  • Members
  • 28,085 posts
  • Location:North Hollywood

Posted 12 September 2011 - 05:25 AM

YOU'RE not what Genesis says.Wait, Genesis says, "So God made some stuff, and that stuff will never evolve."?
You got a date Wednesday, baby!

#35 Dread Aidan

Dread Aidan

    Poker Forum Veteran

  • Members
  • 1,313 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Seven Seas

Posted 12 September 2011 - 07:28 AM

View Postspeedz99, on Saturday, September 10th, 2011, 3:17 PM, said:

Well, it's a bit tricky. A doctor can be a great internist with a full grasp on the intricacies of the body's physiology and associated pathophysiologies and the appropriate treatments without giving a shit about evolution. A surgeon is an extremely well-educated mechanic who doesn't have to care about how we evolved any given bone, muscle, nerve, or vessel. But for either of the two main branches of medicine to advance, medical research has to delve into the inner workings of our bodies at a more and more microscopic scale...from the body, to organs, to cells, to genes, etc. To truly understand how the body runs at a genetic and molecular level, one pretty much has to believe in and understand the mechanics behind evolution. It is basically impossible to understand 'how life works' on that level without realizing that of course all living things evolve. That said, it is certainly feasible for someone to say, "Sure, we evolve, but maybe we were put here at a certain level of evolution by some godlike creature and things moved on from there." I'm not sure if that confirms what I was supposed to confirm.
That was pretty much the exact type of answer I was looking for. I was looking at it more from the perspective of the doctor/surgeon and wondering why they needed to understand evolution to do their job. I think what you're saying makes sense to me.

View Postspeedz99, on Saturday, September 10th, 2011, 3:17 PM, said:

This was very funny.
True dat.

#36 timwakefield

timwakefield

    I haven't got the time time

  • Members
  • 14,413 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Boston
  • Favorite Poker Game:Boxmaha

Posted 12 September 2011 - 07:30 AM

View Postspeedz99, on Monday, September 12th, 2011, 9:25 AM, said:

Wait, Genesis says, "So God made some stuff, and that stuff will never evolve."?
It depends upon whether or not one takes a literal interpretation of Genesis. If one does, then there is no room for evolution. God literally created all the animals we see today from scratch, tossed them onto the earth, and then said it was good or whatever. He also (first) created all the plants on earth from scratch. Like one instant there was nothing, the next instant there was greenery covering the entire earth, created and designed by God and manipulated by Him in a zero'th of a second. If one does not take a literal interpretation, then it can mean whatever you want it to mean. Yeah, God created all the animals and all that, but it happened over billions of years and there were other animals too that are now extinct He just didn't mention those, and whatever else you want to think.
Karl: She was a bit -- what's the word that you can use, cuz I don't wanna offend anyone?
Steve: Was she a homeless person?
Karl: Yeah but sort of mental homeless.

#37 speedz99

speedz99

    It don't matter to Jesus.

  • Members
  • 28,085 posts
  • Location:North Hollywood

Posted 12 September 2011 - 09:14 AM

Why can't one say, "God created everything a long time ago, and since then there has probably been some evolution (after all, there are no pictures or specific anatomical or physiological descriptions in the bible...or, for that matter, explicit statements that all things created will never change), and moving forward that evolution will continue."I feel like that's a legitimate way of holding onto religious beliefs without completely ignoring the mountains of scientific evidence that make denying evolution a sign of closed-minded brainwashed idiocy. Uh, you know, no offense BG.
You got a date Wednesday, baby!

#38 timwakefield

timwakefield

    I haven't got the time time

  • Members
  • 14,413 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Boston
  • Favorite Poker Game:Boxmaha

Posted 12 September 2011 - 10:24 AM

View Postspeedz99, on Monday, September 12th, 2011, 1:14 PM, said:

Why can't one say, "God created everything a long time ago, and since then there has probably been some evolution (after all, there are no pictures or specific anatomical or physiological descriptions in the bible...or, for that matter, explicit statements that all things created will never change), and moving forward that evolution will continue."
One can certainly say that. One can say whatever the hell one wants to say. But that's an example of a non-literal interpretation. The Bible doesn't just say "God created everything," it specifically mentions various animals that were created and the timeline it took to create them. The first thing one has to do if they're gonna marry Genesis with evolutionary theory is to admit/believe/realize that "one day" as mentioned in the Bible actually consists of hundreds of millions of years in some cases, and much longer and shorter periods in other cases. But you also have to overlook some very basic paradoxes, like the fact that He created the Earth before He created the sun and moon and all of the rest of the universe (the stars). [Line 9-10 vs. Line 16] That's pretty hard to reconcile, and that's just the very tip of the iceberg. Genesis 1, King James version:

Quote

1: In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2: And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 3: And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4: And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5: And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. 6: And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7: And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. 8: And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day. 9: And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. 10: And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good. 11: And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. 12: And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 13: And the evening and the morning were the third day. 14: And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 15: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. 16: And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. 17: And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, 18: And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. 19: And the evening and the morning were the fourth day. 20: And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. 21: And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 22: And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth. 23: And the evening and the morning were the fifth day. 24: And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. 25: And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 26: And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27: So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. 28: And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.29: And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. 30: And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so. 31: And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
It does certainly get one thing (fairly) correct though - the fact that man is younger, as a species, than most other animals. But that's practically the only thing in there which is historically accurate.
Karl: She was a bit -- what's the word that you can use, cuz I don't wanna offend anyone?
Steve: Was she a homeless person?
Karl: Yeah but sort of mental homeless.

#39 speedz99

speedz99

    It don't matter to Jesus.

  • Members
  • 28,085 posts
  • Location:North Hollywood

Posted 12 September 2011 - 11:37 AM

"My" interpretation is absolutely a literal interpretation of Genesis. God made all of those things in that order, and it doesn't matter how long it all took in today's standards of time. Once all those things were made, they universe was free to run according to the laws of nature, including evolution. What is non-literal about that? 1. Genesis happens, including the creation of all beasts and whatnot.2. Said beasts commence evolution.No?
You got a date Wednesday, baby!

#40 brvheart

brvheart

    I'm the best.

  • Members
  • 25,322 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Toyko, Japan
  • Interests:Playing in nuclear fallout.
  • Favorite Poker Game:I play 100/200 live with my best friend Jason.

Posted 12 September 2011 - 11:48 AM

Tim. In your reality, where did the universe come from? How did it start? Was it always just there? How can reality pop out of nothing? Does that even make scientific sense?

View PostiZuma, on 20 August 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

napa I was jesus christing suited, you guys just slipped in before me.

View PostEssay21, on 25 February 2013 - 08:32 PM, said:

.




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users