34 replies to this topic

[FCP Bob]

FCP Bob, on Tuesday, May 3rd, 2011, 4:25 PM, said:

Still not convinced that this will actually get off the ground, it's very hard to see how this makes any sense economically.

I guess I was wrong about them getting off the ground but my point about the economics of Epic Poker haven't changed and Daniel explains in his blog how the only thing that makes sense is if they hope to make the Epic League an online poker brand in a regulated US.http://www.fullconta...-jour...&ucat=

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Daniel - Poker JournalWhy I didn't Play the EPL11 Aug 2011 Many of you have asked me why I have chosen not to support, or participate in the Epic Poker League, and while I have a laundry list of reasons, I'd point out that I chose not to take part in the World Team Poker event for one sole reason: I didn't think it would be a success. The same holds true with the Epic Poker League. Not just because of the bizarre choice in name, but because I don't believe this product will resonate with the public and based on my intimate knowledge of how these types of things work, I don't think it's possible to bring in enough revenue to survive. The only legitimate chance the league has to survive is if regulation happened in the U.S. and they were able to create an online poker site. Jeffrey Pollack wouldn't admit that to you publicly, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to do the math here. Millions of dollars being given away to players, money spent on a TV time buy, money spent on staff, etc. with no way of recouping those funds through licensing or sponsorship. Networks aren't going to pay you for poker programming because the necessary ratings just aren't there. The WSOP is the world's most prestigious brand at this point with hundreds of hours of poker programming on TV, and yet they have been unsuccessful in bringing in major money from mainstream sponsors. Ty Stewart, a straight shooter/great guy, and the man behind all of the sponsors the WSOP has been able to bring in over the years, struggles to entice mainstream sponsorship. We have Jack Links and Dearfoam slippers, but there isn't a Lexus, or Caddilac type brand that's stepped up to the plate at this point. The Epic Poker League has 7 hours on CBS and 13 hours on a network that is yet to launch. That pales in comparison to the hundreds of hours of coverage on ESPN. Does anyone really believe that Jeffrey will be able to pull in enough money from sponsorship to sustain the amount of money going out the door? I'm always careful about what I attach my name and likeness to, and after doing my due diligence on the "business plan" I don't think this league can succeed. Of course I could be wrong... but I'm not.

Interesting final table. The question I have is whether the scumbag Chino Reem will pay off whoever is backing him and will he pay off any of the many others that he's borrowed/stolen money from.1 Hasan Habib 1,655,000 2 Jason Mercier 1,495,000 3 Chino Rheem 1,432,000 4 Erik Seidel 1,109,000 5 Gavin Smith 766,000 6 Huck Seed 396,000

[serge]

Come on Daniel...If it wasnt Annie Duke's baby you would be playing.

[KosinTrouble]

serge, on Friday, August 12th, 2011, 7:44 AM, said:

Come on Daniel...If it wasnt Annie Duke's baby you would be playing.

Thats what I thought as well. Wonder if duke is going to try learning anything from her brother and try screwing all the people in epic poker.

[FCP Bob]

serge, on Friday, August 12th, 2011, 9:44 AM, said:

Come on Daniel...If it wasnt Annie Duke's baby you would be playing.

No question that Annie being involved would make it less likely that Daniel would play but just saying he isn't playing because of her is a little too simplistic.Daniel playing is more valuable to the Epic League than it is to Daniel. He doesn't need the extra TV exposure and who knows how they will use his likeness and image in promoting the League and their business. Remember when you play in a tournament like this you give the tourney a lot of rights in using your name, likeness and image.

[Pokerkid555]

Erik Seidel just doesn't stop...

[king_tanner]

Why does he care so much about the success of the league? It's not like he has to patch up and be sponsored by Epic. I thought it was about the $1 million 1st place prize. Who cares about the success of the league?If I had the money to play in a tourney with a 1 mil first place prize I'd play in it even if the league folded the day after the tournament.If he is busy or just doesn't want to play that is one thing, but saying he isn't going to play because the league won't be successful is dumb.

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"The saddest fallacy at this point is that a lot of these players believe that the 'exposure" they might attain from being on TV could land them some kind of endorsement money...unfortunately, after Black Friday, that ship has sailed in the U.S. If a random player with a less than interesting story/personality wins the first TWO EPL's, that isn't going to get him any closer to a lucrative sponsorship deal of any kind. I don't want to call anyone out, or hurt anyone's feelings, but there are ample examples of absolutely incredible poker players involved in this league that will simply never make any endorsement money from poker, no matter how good they are, or no matter how much they win."

Again... the point is to win money. I don't think anyone is dumb enough to think they are going to get a sponsorship deal out of it.

[dead money]

FCP Bob, on Friday, August 12th, 2011, 7:40 AM, said:

No question that Annie being involved would make it less likely that Daniel would play but just saying he isn't playing because of her is a little too simplistic.Daniel playing is more valuable to the Epic League than it is to Daniel. He doesn't need the extra TV exposure and who knows how they will use his likeness and image in promoting the League and their business. Remember when you play in a tournament like this you give the tourney a lot of rights in using your name, likeness and image.

He doesn't need the extra tv exposure? I find that hard to believe. It's not like he is a mainstream celebrity. The majority of ppl in this world don't know of him. Daniel isn't tiger woods. And added exposure means potentially more money in his pocket. There is no such thing as "extra" tv exposure if you want to make big money. Ask JRB. I bet if you asked a million ppl how they know JRB, the majority will say from survivor. More exposure means more popular to the mainstream means a bigger potential to profit.

[serge]

king_tanner, on Friday, August 12th, 2011, 11:27 AM, said:

Why does he care so much about the success of the league? It's not like he has to patch up and be sponsored by Epic. I thought it was about the $1 million 1st place prize. Who cares about the success of the league?If I had the money to play in a tourney with a 1 mil first place prize I'd play in it even if the league folded the day after the tournament.If he is busy or just doesn't want to play that is one thing, but saying he isn't going to play because the league won't be successful is dumb.Again... the point is to win money. I don't think anyone is dumb enough to think they are going to get a sponsorship deal out of it.

Exactly...Poker players make their living on small edges. A tournament with ANY sort of a free roll is an opportunity for any poker player.I dont care how much money someone has , its a bad decision not to play something like this. Also Daniel is one of the "ambassadors" of modern day poker, so he should jump on any vehicle that will advance the game.Ive known Daniel a long time, way before he was famous and he has always been a smart guy .I respect his decision not to play , however i dont agree with it.

[coug2828]

FCP Bob, on Friday, August 12th, 2011, 8:40 AM, said:

No question that Annie being involved would make it less likely that Daniel would play but just saying he isn't playing because of her is a little too simplistic.Daniel playing is more valuable to the Epic League than it is to Daniel. He doesn't need the extra TV exposure and who knows how they will use his likeness and image in promoting the League and their business. Remember when you play in a tournament like this you give the tourney a lot of rights in using your name, likeness and image.

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Many of you have asked me why I have chosen not to support, or participate in the Epic Poker League, and while I have a laundry list of reasons, I'd point out that I chose not to take part in the World Team Poker event for one sole reason: I didn't think it would be a success

His blog should really say that he doesn't want it to be a success.

[MapleLeafpoker]

Curious, why arent some of the other big names not in this?(btw, is this already on tv in Canada? havent caught it)

[FCP Bob]

MapleLeafpoker, on Saturday, August 13th, 2011, 3:30 PM, said:

Curious, why arent some of the other big names not in this?(btw, is this already on tv in Canada? havent caught it)

The event only just finished and won't be on TV anywhere for quite awhile.I'm sure different high profile players who didn't play have many different reasons for not playing.

[FCP Bob]

http://www.pokernews...licly-10845.htmArticle on Event 1 winner and former November 9er Chino Rheem's debts and overall level of scum bagginess.

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This week the poker spotlight seems to have shined on one man: former November Niner David “Chino” Rheem. The story that will no doubt be remembered by poker fans, especially when it airs on television, is his $1,000,000 win in the inaugural Epic Poker League $20,000 Main Event early Saturday morning. What the cameras won’t show is the darker side of the story, namely that Rheem has developed a reputation as a debtor, swindler, and borderline sociopath.These unflattering characteristics have been associated with Rheem, at least in the public eye, ever since poker pro Will Molson took to TwoPlusTwo last week to air his grievances against Rheem, who he claimed “owes” him $40,000. While you can read the details in the TwoPlusTwo thread, the gist of it is that Molson intended to lend Rheem $20,000 at the 2010 European Poker Tour London, accidentally transferred him $40,000 on PokerStars, and Rheem never paid him back, even after confirming the double transfer and finishing third in the event for $150,000. As Molson stated:“He flat out stole from me and it's at the point where I don't expect to see my money back. He flat out stole from me and had no intention of swapping FTP money with me. I waited awhile to out this mainly because I thought there would be a better chance seeing the money if I kept it low key for awhile and gave him time.”Read more: http://www.pokernews...licly-10845.htm

[CaneBrain]

I think a stupid idea like the EPL and Chino deserve each other. It's really poetic that Chino is their inaugural winner. Great day for poker!

[Balloon guy]

CaneBrain, on Saturday, August 13th, 2011, 2:38 PM, said:

I think a stupid idea like the EPL and Chino deserve each other. It's really poetic that Chino is their inaugural winner. Great day for poker!

You just hate mexicans...

[flintsword]

Pokerkid555, on Friday, August 12th, 2011, 10:22 AM, said:

Erik Seidel just doesn't stop...

He *is* a machine ..... I thought this was pretty funny.

[fighter]

Reporter: You just won the epic poker league tournament. What are you going to do with the million dollar first prize. Chino Reem: I am going to pay back some people I owe money to. Reporter: What about the rest? Chino Reem: Well they will just have to wait.

[FCP Bob]

So it looks like Chino might only have ended up with $120K from his win to pay back his creditors.I wonder if the probation that the EPL has put Chino on is double secret probation or just the ordinary kind.http://www.pokernews...ation-10880.htm

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Epic Poker Standards & Conduct Committee Puts Chino Rheem on ProbationAugust 19 2011, Chad HollowayLast week, the Epic Poker League held its inaugural $20,000 Main Event at the Palms Casino in Las Vegas. The tournament attracted 137 players and created a prize pool of $3,085,200 with a smooth $1,000,000 reserved for first. That prize was captured by former November Niner David “Chino” Rheem, who was making headlines of his own outside the EPL.As we reported shortly before the conclusion of EPL’s first Main Event, Rheem had come under fire in the poker community when he was called out by Will Molson in the TwoPlusTwo forums as being a scammer and welsher. Molson’s sentiments were soon echoed by other poker pros such as Ben Lamb, Tom Dwan, and Joseph Cheong, tarnishing Rheem’s reputation in the process. While Rheem did go on to win the event, it may have been too little, too late.Apparently, Rheem did not take home $1,000,000 because he was backed for 70 percent (many in the forums speculate by Rheem’s One Drop hat that his backer was the founder of that charity, Guy Laliberté) and 10 percent was reserved for charity (as part of the staking agreement). That left Rheem with 20 percent, perhaps less because it was rumored he had swapped 8 to 10 percent with another participant in the tournament. If that were true, Rheem would have earned $120,000 for his win.Based upon eyewitness accounts, including that of Donnie Peters from our very own Live Reporting Team who were on hand to cover the event, there was a long list of creditors waiting for Rheem at the payout cage after his win. Apparently, most players were only paid 10 percent to 20 percent of what they were owed, while a few like Lamb and allegedly Erik Cajelais were paid in full, with the latter supposedly causing a bit of a scene at the cage in order to get paid by Rheem.As a result of his conduct, many of Rheem’s critics have called for him to be banned from the EPL because his actions are contradictory to the published Code of Conduct. As such, several formal complaints were filed asking that the EPL Standards and Conduct Committee hold a hearing to sort through the controversy. On Monday, August 15, 2011, that hearing was held. The EPL released a statement Friday.Read more: http://www.pokernews...ation-10880.htm

[solderz]

Probation? What a joke. Are they trying to be the NFL or NBA? Are they going to start fining players next? I really just can't get over this. Seems like overly arrogant for even Annie.

[QED]

I wonder if the pros that are supposed to have a % of ftp are on probation too due to all the money they owe.

[FCP Bob]

QED, on Monday, August 22nd, 2011, 6:21 PM, said:

I wonder if the pros that are supposed to have a % of ftp are on probation too due to all the money they owe.

Andy Bloch is on the Epic Poker Ethics and Standards Committee.