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Official Republicans In Congress Are Idiots Thread


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#1 FCP Bob

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 07:34 PM

There is probably nothing in this World that I hate as much as dogmatic ideologues. I find it hard to believe that the Congressional Republicans are so set in their no revenue increases of any sort position that they would actually not increase the debt ceiling and are putting the US Gov't in a position to possibly default on it's debt.The debt ceiling is actually an insane thing to have in your system of government. All of the spending has already happened and been approved. If the debt ceiling isn't increased it's exactly like running up your credit card bill willingly and then just not paying. Not increasing the debt ceiling can't magically make that money that has been spent not get spent.I think this editorial from the Economist sums things up pretty well when they call the Republican position "economically illiterate and disgracefully cynical". The Economist is a right wing pro business magazine but they aren't ideologues and I think it's the smartest best magazine in the English speaking World.Don't get me wrong, the morons in the Democratic Party who refuse to even consider reform of entitlements are just as bad. Basically I think you're all screwed since it seems there is no such thing as a talented reasonable politician in the US currently who actually has any influence. It's the idiots on the fringes who are controlling things.http://www.economist...ory_id=18928600

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The sticking-point is not on the spending side. It is because the vast majority of Republicans, driven on by the wilder-eyed members of their party and the cacophony of conservative media, are clinging to the position that not a single cent of deficit reduction must come from a higher tax take. This is economically illiterate and disgracefully cynical. A gamble where you bet your country’s good name This newspaper has a strong dislike of big government; we have long argued that the main way to right America’s finances is through spending cuts. But you cannot get there without any tax rises. In Britain, for instance, the coalition government aims to tame its deficit with a 3:1 ratio of cuts to hikes. America’s tax take is at its lowest level for decades: even Ronald Reagan raised taxes when he needed to do so. And the closer you look, the more unprincipled the Republicans look. Earlier this year House Republicans produced a report noting that an 85%-15% split between spending cuts and tax rises was the average for successful fiscal consolidations, according to historical evidence. The White House is offering an 83%-17% split (hardly a huge distance) and a promise that none of the revenue increase will come from higher marginal rates, only from eliminating loopholes. If the Republicans were real tax reformers, they would seize this offer. Both parties have in recent months been guilty of fiscal recklessness. Right now, though, the blame falls clearly on the Republicans. Independent voters should take note.

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#2 hblask

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 07:45 PM

View PostFCP Bob, on Saturday, July 9th, 2011, 9:34 PM, said:

TIf the debt ceiling isn't increased it's exactly like running up your credit card bill willingly and then just not paying.
No, it's not like that at all. It's like reaching the limit on your credit card and then just quit wasting money instead of calling your credit card company and ask for an increase.In both cases, eventually the answer will be no. It should be obvious that the sooner someone gives you a dose of fiscal reality and says no, the better, whether it's your personal credit card or your national debt.
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#3 hblask

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 07:51 PM

View PostFCP Bob, on Saturday, July 9th, 2011, 9:34 PM, said:

The White House is offering an 83%-17% split (hardly a huge distance) and a promise that none of the revenue increase will come from higher marginal rates, only from eliminating loopholes.
I have no idea if this is true, it's the first I heard of this claim. If it is, and it was accompanied by a massive simplification of the tax code, then I agree with you. A small increase due to a simplified tax code would offset the deadweight losses caused by the costs of obeying -- and avoiding -- a too complex code.Just increasing taxes and spending for the fun of it is a horrible, horrible idea, and the Republicans should resist that at all costs. Enough already.
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#4 FCP Bob

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 08:01 PM

View Posthblask, on Saturday, July 9th, 2011, 11:45 PM, said:

No, it's not like that at all. It's like reaching the limit on your credit card and then just quit wasting money instead of calling your credit card company and ask for an increase.In both cases, eventually the answer will be no. It should be obvious that the sooner someone gives you a dose of fiscal reality and says no, the better, whether it's your personal credit card or your national debt.
So you think the right thing to do for the government is to in one fell swoop go from running a massive deficit to a balanced budget in one year with all of the cuts and massive dislocation that will entail because that's the reality of not increasing the debt ceiling ? That and costing the government billions in increased interest costs.
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#5 hblask

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 08:07 PM

View PostFCP Bob, on Saturday, July 9th, 2011, 10:01 PM, said:

So you think the right thing to do for the government is to in one fell swoop go from running a massive deficit to a balanced budget in one year with all of the cuts and massive dislocation that will entail because that's the reality of not increasing the debt ceiling ? That and costing the government billions in increased interest costs.
It's difficult to get a real rundown of the numbers, but it seems unlikely it could be done in one year, considering the percent of the budget devoted to entitlements that have been promised for decades.Having said that, there is absolutely no way they should make a deal that does not provide 1) a balanced budget for all non-entitlement programs within 2 years and 2) a balanced budget for entitlement programs within 10 years and 3) a means to keep it balanced (such as a balanced budget amendment) permanently after that.Anything less and they are just engaging in more-of-the-same political cowardice.PS -- reducing deficits decreases interest costs, not increases them, so I don't get that comment.
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#6 FCP Bob

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 08:10 PM

View Posthblask, on Sunday, July 10th, 2011, 12:07 AM, said:

PS -- reducing deficits decreases interest costs, not increases them, so I don't get that comment.
Don't increase the debt ceiling and default on your debt and see how much more expensive it is for the US gov't to pay for the existing debt you have.
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#7 FCP Bob

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 08:15 PM

I have no problem with fiscal conservatives using the debt ceiling as a lever and negotiating catalyst to get some of their policies in place but at the end of the day any US politician who actually believes that they should not increase the debt ceiling and that it's a reasonable option is not fit to govern and is either so stupid as to not understand the consequences of their actions or such ideologues that they don't care as long as their narrow religion of smaller government comes about no matter what the cost.
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#8 Balloon guy

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 08:30 PM

View PostFCP Bob, on Saturday, July 9th, 2011, 9:15 PM, said:

I have no problem with fiscal conservatives using the debt ceiling as a lever and negotiating catalyst to get some of their policies in place but at the end of the day any US politician who actually believes that they should not increase the debt ceiling and that it's a reasonable option is not fit to govern and is either so stupid as to not understand the consequences of their actions or such ideologues that they don't care as long as their narrow religion of smaller government comes about no matter what the cost.
This exact line of thinking has been going on to justify the problem that keeps getting worse for decades."Sure, we are all for being realistic, but we just can't do it right now because the situation is so bad"The amount of money coming in is decreasing, their spending is increasing.No matter how much your intentions are to do good tomorrow, today has already forced the issue.I can already guarantee the republicans will cave on this. 100% they will give in.And the new 'We can't possibility spend less than this" level will rise again. And in a year or two we will be talking about how we 'have to raise the debt ceiling' all over again. "Only this time its never been so important that we continue to spend at the rising levels we are used too"The long term is a default resulting in a global economic depression.
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#9 Pot Odds RAC

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 08:59 PM

View PostFCP Bob, on Saturday, July 9th, 2011, 11:34 PM, said:

...no revenue increases...
Please please PLEASE quit calling a Tax Increase a "Revenue Increase".

#10 FCP Bob

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 09:08 PM

View PostPot Odds RAC, on Sunday, July 10th, 2011, 12:59 AM, said:

Please please PLEASE quit calling a Tax Increase a "Revenue Increase".
Not all revenue increases are tax increases.Here's an example for you.Hedge Fund managers make money in two ways. They get a management fee and then they also get a percentage of the increase in the value of the fund they manage. The income that they earn as a result of the fund going up in value is for some inexplicable reason other than the fund managers having enough politicians in their pockets as a capital gain and taxed at the reduced capital gain rate instead of as ordinary income. The thing is that there is no justification at all for classifying it as a capital gain since the fund manager has zero capital invested to earn this income and is at no risk of losing capital. If you change this interpretation it would increase revenue but it would not be a tax increase.
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#11 El Guapo

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 10:36 PM

Pretty sure that is a tax increase on hedge funds.

#12 LongLiveYorke

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 07:37 AM

Bob is very right.Obama has offered an excellent offer to congress. Republicans and Democrats should take it and, in doing so, simultaneously raise the debt ceiling (which is 100% necessary, anyone who tells you otherwise is wasting your time) and reduce the deficit.It'll be interesting and very telling to see how things play out. I think the next few week will have (or should have) a major effect on next year's election. They'll demonstrate in a very real way who in Washington is willing to get things done, to compromise, and to look forward to the future. And it'll show who has fallen so deep into their own fundamentalism that they would sacrifice the well-being of this country for symbolic points.

#13 CaneBrain

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 08:03 AM

View PostEl Guapo, on Sunday, July 10th, 2011, 2:36 AM, said:

Pretty sure that is just making hedge fund managers pay taxes the normal way like everyone else
fyp.
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#14 El Guapo

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 08:45 AM

View PostCaneBrain, on Sunday, July 10th, 2011, 9:03 AM, said:

fyp.
Didn't say. Didn't agree with it. But it's still a tax increase.

#15 LongLiveYorke

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 09:09 AM

View PostEl Guapo, on Sunday, July 10th, 2011, 12:45 PM, said:

Didn't say. Didn't agree with it. But it's still a tax increase.
Clearly. I'm not afraid to say that we should increase taxes on some to help reduce the deficit. I'm also not afraid to say that, in the long term, social programs need to be addressed because they will quickly become unsustainable. The need to change them, however, would be dramatically reduced if this country's healthcare costs were in line with the rest of the world's costs.It's embarrassing that both sides are using the debt limit as a point for arguing some abstract political position that has little relevance to the real world.

#16 LongLiveYorke

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 09:09 AM

Double Post

#17 CaneBrain

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 09:46 AM

View PostEl Guapo, on Sunday, July 10th, 2011, 12:45 PM, said:

Didn't say. Didn't agree with it. But it's still a tax increase.
I'm just trying to point out that there are tax increases that are punitive and tax increases that make perfect sense. If I can't get conservatives to agree that something wildly common sense like that should happen, what is my incentive as a liberal to concede on other isses?Liberals are pre-disposed to compromise. For every inch the GOP gives, the Democrats will give an inch and a half. Guaranteed. But if the GOP refuses to compromise anywhere, they might accidentally give the Dems a spine and they will lose the PR battle over this. 2010 is old news now and I think the GOP is overplaying their hand.
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#18 ShakeZuma

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 10:09 AM

View PostLongLiveYorke, on Sunday, July 10th, 2011, 1:09 PM, said:

Double Post
yeah like I'm going to be able to take your word on anything you post in this thread now. idiot.

View PostAmScray, on 30 August 2010 - 12:41 PM, said:

one cannot possibly ascribe themselves to the larger (D) philosophy without first being a poon

#19 hblask

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 10:56 AM

View PostLongLiveYorke, on Sunday, July 10th, 2011, 11:09 AM, said:

The need to change them, however, would be dramatically reduced if this country's healthcare costs were in line with the rest of the world's costs.
Yeah, we don't want rationing here. That's the whole point of being rich, so we don't have to beg bureaucrats for the care we need.
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#20 hblask

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 10:59 AM

View PostCaneBrain, on Sunday, July 10th, 2011, 11:46 AM, said:

Liberals are pre-disposed to compromise. For every inch the GOP gives, the Democrats will give an inch and a half.
I guess you didn't notice Obamacare.
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