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Good Flop Fold With Bottom 2?


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#1 SumDayAA

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Posted 07 May 2011 - 04:54 AM

I was playin .1/.25 cash game on stars for about an hour when this hand came upMP3 ($25)CO ($26.86)Hero (Button) ($32.01)SB ($9.75)BB ($14.01)UTG ($25)UTG+1 ($6.89)MP1 ($19.29)MP2 ($25)Preflop: Hero is Button with , [4c 5c]1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.25, MP1 calls $0.25, 3 folds, Hero calls $0.25, SB calls $0.15, BB checksFlop: ($1.25) , [5d Kh 4h], (5 players)SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 bets $0.75, MP1 calls $0.75, Hero raises to $3.50, 2 folds, UTG+1 raises to $6.64 (All-In), MP1 raises to $19.04 (All-In), Hero foldsTurn: ($18.03) [8h] (2 players, 2 all-in)River: ($18.03) [Qc] (2 players, 2 all-in)UTG+1 shows [Kc 8d] 2 pairMP1 shows [7h 6h] FlushBefore the small stack shoved i thought i should've just called for pot control in case the draws get there. I'm more concerned with if it was a good fold.Obviously I would've been outdrawn but I'm more worried about the decision than the results.

#2 QED

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Posted 07 May 2011 - 08:47 AM

If you could format on something like http://www.feralcowp...y-converter.php and not include results that would help.

#3 pokerinc

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Posted 07 May 2011 - 12:34 PM

No reads I'd fold. Hate limped pots.
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#4 rrumsey

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 10:22 AM

draw heavy board i dont mind getting it in on the flop here. your call pre is questionable imoand i dont prefer to pot control when the board is so wet, more hands will get it in without knowing there absolute value on the river, pour chips into the middle imoi mean we block sets and KX hands are destroyed by you, the only likely hands are draws.
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#5 Ninja Ace

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 11:20 AM

As I see it, there are 2 ways to play this hand

View PostSumDayAA, on Saturday, May 7th, 2011, 4:54 AM, said:

Preflop: Hero is Button with , [4c 5c]1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.25, MP1 calls $0.25, 3 folds, Hero raises to $1.50
or

View PostSumDayAA, on Saturday, May 7th, 2011, 4:54 AM, said:

Preflop: Hero is Button with , [4c 5c]1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.25, MP1 calls $0.25, 3 folds, Hero folds

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#6 trystero

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 02:45 PM

easy callI doubt mp is flatting w/ a better hand (his line looks drawy), and other two pair combos are unlikely

#7 mtdesmoines

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 03:25 PM

Raise this on the button. If it's raised and we flop this, we're never folding.
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#8 answer20

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 05:50 AM

Looks as though all are on the same page here. If you are going to play this type of hand on the Button you want to thin the herd with a raise so that if you whiff on the Flop you can still C-bet a high board and maybe take it down there. If you were limping in early position it would be different since you can get away from this hand by check/folding. You can still play this hand by raising in early position, you just have to be ready to play OOP if you get some play-back to your C-bet.Obviously this is an interesting board, even with 2-pair, to consider the all-in. The short all-in makes it even more inviting for the 2nd all-in to come in even if they don't have the monster draw that they showed up with here. You need to look at the side pot and determine if you want to go against his range and then if you win the main it will be a bonus. Obviously you would rather have a set here, but bottom two pair isn't that bad since you limit any Kx from getting 2-pair from the board, you are still trying to avoid a min of 8 outs on the River against Kx or strt. draw IF they don't have hearts and much more than that if hearts are involved. Most every high volume player will say you need to get it in here and 'variance' will win out in the long run. The only problem I have with variance is that most don't consider the size of the pot as well. Are you going to get 'your' wins against pot sizes this large? A bunch of small wins don't add up to a huge loss ... granted this guy has set the table for you and the potential of winning the main pot can help your long term success. There is nothing wrong with taking a minute to see if you want to step aside for such a large portion of your stack in the side pot. I don't really like to consider the chips in the main in a case like this since you have to win the side pot first ... what would you do heads up if this was a Flop shove and you had to call 600% of your invested chips? Do whatever you are comfortable with ... I am willing to fold this some of the time.

#9 Stupidhead

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 09:46 AM

The limp preflop is fine. Would really like to know why so many others think we should be raising after 2 limpers with everyone remaining in the pot being fish (since none of them are topped up) that are probably not folding.On the flop, again since the players aren't topped up, their range for getting their stacks in is going to be pretty wide. Doubt either of them don't get stacked with any Kx hand and the shorter stack may just punt something like 65 or 88 cuz he has a pair. So facing two jams I'd be pretty happy calling off.

#10 j-roc

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 08:57 PM

View PostStupidhead, on 08 July 2012 - 09:46 AM, said:

The limp preflop is fine. Would really like to know why so many others think we should be raising after 2 limpers with everyone remaining in the pot being fish (since none of them are topped up) that are probably not folding.On the flop, again since the players aren't topped up, their range for getting their stacks in is going to be pretty wide. Doubt either of them don't get stacked with any Kx hand and the shorter stack may just punt something like 65 or 88 cuz he has a pair. So facing two jams I'd be pretty happy calling off.

The shorter stakes makes this hand ok to fold imo. This hand relies on getting paid off with draws and implied odds. Yes, there are 2 people already in the pot and two more likely from the blinds. In this we hit about as good as we can hope for and we still dont know what to do. You should be folding this hand 100% of the time in this spot if you cant decide what the best play here is. Im not ragging on you by any means, but the fact that we hit what we were looking to hit and we are confused on what we should do makes this hand an easy fold in the future




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