26 replies to this topic

[DiamondDixie]

I got into a debate with someone about staking, and I had some questions. What are standard deals for staking, say for someone playing online MTTs? *Terms, contract length, makeup etc. What's a good deal and what's a bad deal?Does the stakee generally owe the staker until all makeup is paid back or until the end of the contact period? General pros and cons to staking and being staked?What are the worst pitfalls to be careful of? What is the difference in (if any) in stakeback and makeup?

[tbrick412]

I've been part of a couple backing agreements but they've both been with friends and there was no "contracts" really other than you just know you can't quit on someone when you're in MU and they can pretty much quit you whenever they want. Both deals, as most are I would presume, were 50/50 with makeup.

DiamondDixie, on Sunday, April 24th, 2011, 8:49 PM, said:

I got into a debate with someone about staking, and I had some questions. What are standard deals for staking, say for someone playing online MTTs? *Terms, contract length, makeup etc. What's a good deal and what's a bad deal?I doubt theres many good deals or bad deals floating around. Most are 50/50 with makeup, sometimes a backer could give a horse 60% I guess but I haven't heard of that too often in my experience.Does the stakee generally owe the staker until all makeup is paid back or until the end of the contact period? Say my backer sends me $100 to play $5 games with and I lose 4 in a row... so I have $80 in my account. I then win one for $30 in profit and I'm up to $110 in my account. We would split the $10 50/50 as per the agreement and each profit $5. If the backer cuts you when you are in makeup then he eats the loss, if you quit him while you are in makeup(which is in really bad form) then you owe him or her the money. I'm not entirely sure what happens if you end a contract period while in makeup, I've never been part of an agreement like that. General pros and cons to staking and being staked?Biggest con is the obvious that you are giving up 50% of your profit. Some pros are not having to worry about having your own money online, especially in the unstable world of online poker, being able to play higher than you can afford, playing more tables than you are used too. I also find it easier to play my best when being backed because I'm not as worried about losing all my own money. Backers obv run the risk of eating alot on a horse who isn't that good or getting him buried so far in makeup that you wanna keep investing in the horse to get them out of makeup, only digging the whole deeper. I've never backed anyone so can't get into a ton of detail.What are the worst pitfalls to be careful of? Think I kinda got to that above. What is the difference in (if any) in stakeback and makeup?I'm not sure how stakeback would work with a full time backer really. Not sure how to answer this one, sorry.

My backing experience is kinda limited but I hope this helps. I'm sure some others could elaborate further.

[fighter]

DiamondDixie, on Monday, April 25th, 2011, 11:49 AM, said:

I got into a debate with someone about staking, and I had some questions. What are standard deals for staking, say for someone playing online MTTs? *Terms, contract length, makeup etc. What's a good deal and what's a bad deal? General pros and cons to staking and being staked?What are the worst pitfalls to be careful of? What is the difference in (if any) in stakeback and makeup?

Make up is a commitment to repay previous buy ins with other tournament profits. Stakeback only lasts the duration of the single tournament or tournament series. http://forumserver.t...ow-long-479377/I would read that thread before entering any makeup agreement.

[fighter]

tbrick412, on Monday, April 25th, 2011, 12:58 PM, said:

Backers obv run the risk of eating alot on a horse who isn't that good or getting him buried so far in makeup that you wanna keep investing in the horse to get them out of makeup, only digging the whole deeper. I've never backed anyone so can't get into a ton of detail.

This is probably the biggest danger in deals loss-aversionMeans that humans don't like accepting a sunk losecognitive dissonanceMeans that you have a hard time accepting they are now a losing player since you have to accept that the original idea of backing him was a mistake. Confirmation bias and anchoringMeans that you will overvalue the positive short term results. It is why you will read all the time on forums about "variance" and "sample size". It is very easy to rationalise that you are not just a bad player.

[DiamondDixie]

Thanks guys this pretty much cleared it up for me! Anyone want to back me on Carbon for MTTs, LOL.

[dscoot]

why does a winning player need a stake? street sense says that people needing stakes are not winning players.the only reason alot of pros offer stakes is cuz they have a gambling problem and want more action and to help people they feel sorry for.. and profiting by staking people is as bad morally as insurance and tax collectorsin honor of Easter, JC would spit in stakers faces...

[DinkDonk]

dscoot, on Monday, April 25th, 2011, 4:38 AM, said:

why does a winning player need a stake? street sense says that people needing stakes are not winning players.the only reason alot of pros offer stakes is cuz they have a gambling problem and want more action and to help people they feel sorry for.. and profiting by staking people is as bad morally as insurance and tax collectorsin honor of Easter, JC would spit in stakers faces...

I thought it was just an unfunny joke, but it just got worse and worse.

[fighter]

dscoot, on Monday, April 25th, 2011, 6:38 PM, said:

why does a winning player need a stake? street sense says that people needing stakes are not winning players.the only reason alot of pros offer stakes is cuz they have a gambling problem and want more action and to help people they feel sorry for.. and profiting by staking people is as bad morally as insurance and tax collectorsin honor of Easter, JC would spit in stakers faces...

From this post I was able to work out that you don't understand Insurance, tax, morality, variance, street sense, bankroll management, honour, gambling problems, investments and Christianity. Oh and staking , you have absolutely no idea about staking.

[Mercury69]

[tbrick412]

dscoot, on Monday, April 25th, 2011, 3:38 AM, said:

why does a winning player need a stake? street sense says that people needing stakes are not winning players.the only reason alot of pros offer stakes is cuz they have a gambling problem and want more action and to help people they feel sorry for.. and profiting by staking people is as bad morally as insurance and tax collectorsin honor of Easter, JC would spit in stakers faces...

oyb

[kobe2odom8]

dscoot, on Monday, April 25th, 2011, 1:38 AM, said:

why does a winning player need a stake? street sense says that people needing stakes are not winning players.the only reason alot of pros offer stakes is cuz they have a gambling problem and want more action and to help people they feel sorry for.. and profiting by staking people is as bad morally as insurance and tax collectorsin honor of Easter, JC would spit in stakers faces...

[DiamondDixie]

dscoot, on Monday, April 25th, 2011, 4:38 AM, said:

why does a winning player need a stake? street sense says that people needing stakes are not winning players.the only reason alot of pros offer stakes is cuz they have a gambling problem and want more action and to help people they feel sorry for.. and profiting by staking people is as bad morally as insurance and tax collectorsin honor of Easter, JC would spit in stakers faces...

Are you seriously serious? I've just waiting for a good place to use this pic :-)1st, most stakers require that people they stake are already proven winning players over a decent sample size2nd, as a stakee being staked helps you to balance the variance and to play at stakes you couldn't otherwise play.3rd, many staking deals include some coaching from the staker to the stakee creating a win-win situation for both....and how in the world is profiting by staking people morally bad. By giving the stake the stakee benefits by being able to play the games he wants without the worry of financial ruin. In return he agrees to share his profits with his backer. I see nothing wrong with that at all. As a poker player we lie and steal from our opponents everyday we play. Every time you bet with air you are in essence lying. Every time you raise the button with a trash hand in hopes of stealing the blinds you are in essence stealing. How is this more morally acceptable than profiting from staking? Oh Jesus wouldn't spit in anyones face he would turn the other cheek.

[donk4life]

dscoot is godd

[TrueAce13]

dscoot, on Monday, April 25th, 2011, 1:38 AM, said:

why does a winning player need a stake? street sense says that people needing stakes are not winning players.the only reason alot of pros offer stakes is cuz they have a gambling problem and want more action and to help people they feel sorry for.. and profiting by staking people is as bad morally as insurance and tax collectorsin honor of Easter, JC would spit in stakers faces...

couldn't of stated it better myself

[rcgs59]

DiamondDixie, on Monday, April 25th, 2011, 7:12 PM, said:

Are you seriously serious? I've just waiting for a good place to use this pic :-)1st, most stakers require that people they stake are already proven winning players over a decent sample size2nd, as a stakee being staked helps you to balance the variance and to play at stakes you couldn't otherwise play.3rd, many staking deals include some coaching from the staker to the stakee creating a win-win situation for both....and how in the world is profiting by staking people morally bad. By giving the stake the stakee benefits by being able to play the games he wants without the worry of financial ruin. In return he agrees to share his profits with his backer. I see nothing wrong with that at all. As a poker player we lie and steal from our opponents everyday we play. Every time you bet with air you are in essence lying. Every time you raise the button with a trash hand in hopes of stealing the blinds you are in essence stealing. How is this more morally acceptable than profiting from staking? Oh Jesus wouldn't spit in anyones face he would turn the other cheek.

good post

donk4life, on Monday, April 25th, 2011, 8:06 PM, said:

dscoot is godd

RU ****in serious

TrueAce13, on Monday, April 25th, 2011, 10:02 PM, said:

couldn't of stated it better myself

RU ****in serious , omfg

[donk4life]

rose fired up, go click that mouse baby, easy some stress.

[rcgs59]

donk4life, on Monday, April 25th, 2011, 10:34 PM, said:

rose fired up, go click that mouse baby, easy some stress.

no Ian just a little drunk and giggy lolxoxoxoxoxowant to skype honey looooool

[wsox8]

rcgs59, on Monday, April 25th, 2011, 9:39 PM, said:

no Ian just a little drunk and giggy lolxoxoxoxoxowant to skype honey looooool

I suggest you take this request before dscoot takes it for himself.Drunk and giggy, oh my.....

[rcgs59]

wsox8, on Monday, April 25th, 2011, 10:45 PM, said:

I suggest you take this request before dscoot takes it for himself.Drunk and giggy, oh my.....

did I say horny too , oops

[donk4life]

Oh man.