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Being Accountable: A Challenge In Small Stakes Plo


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#1 MNmiracleCJS

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Posted 31 March 2011 - 11:44 PM

Ok, I decided I have to become accountable for my results if I'm ever going to take this more serious than pure entertainment. It seems to me that there aren't a whole lot of PLO players on the site but I will be posting HHs and any insight or questioning of my play is welcome and encouraged. Very Short Meaningless Back Story: Started off playing Hold'em SNGs and MTT where I've notched a few 4 figure scores (still looking for that first 5 figure). Basically I've always played strictly for fun If I ever had a score in a tourney live or on line I'd just cash it out or take it out of my , and I'd never made any attempt to practice BRM or build a bankroll of any sorts. If I busted it I'd just be done until I had some more money for entertainment purposes. Over the last year or so I've gotten into PLO and I now consider it my best game I just feel that my brain is much more comfortable with the way Omaha plays as opposed to Hold 'em. I've since invested in a couple of Jeff Hwang's books on Short-Handed PLO which I found really easy to read. Before this gets to TL:DR level as far as this challenge gos I'm going to try and navigate my way up through small stakes PLO and make a concious effort to practice a BRM strategy and build a bankroll. - BR < 30 BI requires a move down- BR > 50 BI allowed to take 1 table shots at the next level (preferably short stacking)- Post atleast 1 interesting HH and with thought process from each session- 5 Buy in Stop Loss- Not sure how I should work MTTs and SNGs since I do plan to play them occasionally atleast probably just keep a seperate amount in my account alotted towards them Any additions or suggestions would be appreciated.
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#2 FARGOpokerND

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 12:20 AM

Good luck!I will make sure to check this forum more often (wow two new threads in a month!)Remember that PLO swings are retardedly awful. I went through a 34bi downer in March that I am finally almost out of. Swings will happen. 5 buy-in stop loss is alright with those BRM restrictions, but as I said, swings happen ridic fast and 5bi really isn't a lot for PLO.GL though!

#3 meservery

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 03:21 AM

View PostMNmiracleCJS, on Friday, April 1st, 2011, 3:44 AM, said:

Ok, I decided I have to become accountable for my results if I'm ever going to take this more serious than pure entertainment. It seems to me that there aren't a whole lot of PLO players on the site but I will be posting HHs and any insight or questioning of my play is welcome and encouraged. Very Short Meaningless Back Story: Started off playing Hold'em SNGs and MTT where I've notched a few 4 figure scores (still looking for that first 5 figure). Basically I've always played strictly for fun If I ever had a score in a tourney live or on line I'd just cash it out or take it out of my , and I'd never made any attempt to practice BRM or build a bankroll of any sorts. If I busted it I'd just be done until I had some more money for entertainment purposes. Over the last year or so I've gotten into PLO and I now consider it my best game I just feel that my brain is much more comfortable with the way Omaha plays as opposed to Hold 'em. I've since invested in a couple of Jeff Hwang's books on Short-Handed PLO which I found really easy to read. Before this gets to TL:DR level as far as this challenge gos I'm going to try and navigate my way up through small stakes PLO and make a concious effort to practice a BRM strategy and build a bankroll. - BR < 30 BI requires a move down- BR > 50 BI allowed to take 1 table shots at the next level (preferably short stacking)- Post atleast 1 interesting HH and with thought process from each session- 5 Buy in Stop Loss- Not sure how I should work MTTs and SNGs since I do plan to play them occasionally atleast probably just keep a seperate amount in my account alotted towards them Any additions or suggestions would be appreciated.
You have inspired me to SPAM this sub-forum. Thank you sir.More to come hopefully.Motion to merge all the NON-holdem-strat forums!

#4 MNmiracleCJS

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 04:48 AM

Played a little 1.8k hand session and ended up a little over 2 BI I Think you're right about the 5 BI stop loss Fargo as I hit -5.5 BI about 500 Hands in just took a break and kept grinding though so I'll leave that a little discretion. I just need to be careful because I like to play ridiculously long sessions occasionally at the end of which im prone to tilt. Poker Stars $10.00 Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 5 players - View hand 1259286DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History ConverterHero (BB): $9.50UTG: $12.13CO: $12.14BTN: $10.66SB: $7.97Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is BB with T :jh A :club: 9 :5c T :tsUTG raises to $0.20, CO raises to $0.75, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.65, UTG calls $0.55Flop: ($2.30) 9 :D 2 :3h 5 :4h (3 players)Hero checks, UTG checks, CO bets $2.19, Hero calls $2.19, UTG calls $2.19Turn: ($8.87) 8 :D (3 players)Hero checks, UTG checks, CO checksRiver: ($8.87) 7 :qh (3 players)Hero bets $6.56, UTG folds, CO foldsThis one was sort of interesting, basically pre-flop at this level I'm assuming the 3-bet is AAxx unless I have reason to believe it's not (because 95% of the time it is) so I decide to flat basically to set mine but I feel this hand flops pretty well and I have a blocker to the set. I haven't looked but I believe my equity is pretty good in this spot. The flop isn't Horrible for me CO still has just AA in all likelihood and that doesn't hit UTG's range really at all since he opened with the exceptions of some 987x 876x type hands. When CO pots I know that a flat here looks fairly strong and I can probably take him off his hand on a later street regardless of if he improves. UTG calling behind kind of surprises me. Turn brings the 8 which completes the nut straight for 67 but I'm really not thinking either of these players can have that here. In fact I'm the only player that can really rep it believably. In reality I should probably fire here but I decide to check and when it gets checked around I decide I'm going to fire nearly any river. The river 7 is a really good card for me to bluff in this spot I have blockers to the nut and 2nd nut straight and both players played the turn passively which leaves 67 out of the picture as far as I'm concerned.
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#5 KingJames

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 06:21 AM

I'm trying to learn PLOI've watched a few video series on deucescracked and feel I have a decent understanding of simple PLO, so I'll try to give my thoughts and post a few hands in here. I'm currently playing 5plo 6max on FTP.Plus, I love challenge threads!glgl
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#6 KingJames

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 06:24 AM

re: TT9A; I'm not sure I love the cold call of the 3b. I hate being oop and not deep, but I could be persuaded. I like what you said about blockers and knowing villains range, but TT9A single suited doesn't have a lot of nut potential, right? I mean, make the 9 a J and we are in a lot better shape for flopping wraps etc.I do like your thought process and play on the turn/river! Nice hand, imo
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#7 MNmiracleCJS

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 01:00 PM

I agree this is ...probably a fold against a decent villain but I wouldn't classify villain that way. Plus I think this particular hand plays itself on the majority of flops. In general I think I'm playing too many hands I think does anyone know what an optimal vpip would be for 6 max Omaha?
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#8 FARGOpokerND

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 02:08 PM

I am not a fan of all calling with ATT9 1 suit in the SB to a 3bet. Especially only 95bb deep. It isn't a great spot to setmine because you won't get the AAxx guy's stack all the time, plus you have to worry about UTG as well. I dump this most times.As for during the hand, once UTG calls the flop bet we should be MUCh more cautious. I don't recommend pulling an elaborate bluff here just because you don't know what UTG is going to be coming along with. It is generally so hard to pull off bluffs versus 2 or more opponents. It makes it even harder when you are first to act.Try and focus more on playing pots in position and when you are out of position, focus on playing nut-making hands. Theres more I can mention, I think, but I am basically rambling so I will keep it at that for now because time is short haha.

#9 FARGOpokerND

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 02:09 PM

Also...a quick way to drop 10bi in not many handsGot raped in EV over like 300 hands to finish sessionPosted Image

#10 KingJames

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 04:56 PM

sorry, fargo :club:
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#11 MNmiracleCJS

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 01:27 PM

Played about 1k hands today before work at about break even but I ran well which was nice. I'm at work now but ill try to post some more hands when I get home tonight. Think I'm getting better about tightening my preflop range and I've turned on my HUD which I haven't done for awhile so we will see how that goes
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I bet if that puck was a cheeseburger you'd stop it ~ Russ Tyler

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#12 MNmiracleCJS

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Posted 02 April 2011 - 11:12 PM

PokerStars Pot-Limit Omaha, $0.25 BB (4 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comBB ($12.25)UTG ($17.82)Button ($19.04)Hero (SB) ($28.44)Preflop: Hero is SB with 4 :ts , 3 :qh , 5 :4h , J :club:UTG calls $0.25, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.15, BB checksFlop: ($0.75) 6 :5c , J :3h , 3 :club: (3 players)Hero?I'm guessing we mix our play in a situation like this villains are pretty standard players so What % of the time or in what situations do you like the followinga.) lead outb.) check callc.) check raised.) open fold
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#13 FARGOpokerND

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Posted 03 April 2011 - 01:43 AM

View PostMNmiracleCJS, on Sunday, April 3rd, 2011, 2:12 AM, said:

a.) lead out - Most%b.) check call - If BB potsc.) check raise - If UTG potsd.) open fold - 0%
That is probably my default. The UTG is going to be betting a wider range here due to position and its not likely he is limping 66 or 33 type hands. On the other hand, if the BB is potting, his range can most definitely include hands like 33 66 36 456 and such where you may be freerolling. If you are c/ring the UTG, you are doing so with your hearts mostly as blockers to give him worse odds on catching his flush, and not because you want to necessarily hit teh flush (pretty obv thought I guess)

#14 MNmiracleCJS

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Posted 03 April 2011 - 06:34 AM

~3.4k hands this morning mostly $10 PLO with 1 table of $25 PLO mixed in obviously ran pretty well and started regressing at the end 2 BI over EV is something I will take any day. Thought the last 1.5k hands or so was the best I had played in a while and the results match that which is always nice.Posted ImageWill pick a few hands to post here when i go over my session a little later but here's a teaser.PokerStars Pot-Limit Omaha, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comCO ($14.31)Hero (Button) ($11.16)SB ($17.52)BB ($10.30)UTG ($17.53)MP ($6.33)Preflop: Hero is Button with A :club:, K :3h, 8 :ts, 7 :qh2 folds, CO bets $0.35, Hero calls $0.35, 2 foldsFlop: ($0.85) 10 :4h, 9 :5c, 2 :jh (2 players)CO bets $0.70, Hero calls $0.70Turn: ($2.25) 6 :D (2 players)CO bets $1.60, Hero raises to $6.94Anything you do different here? 3-Bet Pre? Raise flop? Flat Turn?
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I bet if that puck was a cheeseburger you'd stop it ~ Russ Tyler

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#15 FARGOpokerND

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Posted 03 April 2011 - 07:34 PM

I 3bet that a lot preflop OTB.Flop flat is fine. Turn you can flat or raise. Its nice you have the FD to go with it so you can let them hang themselves. I might raise less though...make it look a bit bluffier instead of "I'm potting, I have a hand"

#16 meservery

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 03:14 AM

hi.thanks for the responses people.so what about a mixture of this thread plus single hand threads? Makes this sub-forum look more active me thinks....Also thoughts to merging the PLO and O8 forums?

#17 KingJames

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 05:50 AM

View Postmeservery, on Tuesday, April 5th, 2011, 5:14 AM, said:

hi.thanks for the responses people.so what about a mixture of this thread plus single hand threads? Makes this sub-forum look more active me thinks....Also thoughts to merging the PLO and O8 forums?
I think it's a pretty good idea. I have heard that Bob is planning to condense a lot of the forum soon, but I'll make sure he hears this idea.I haven't played any PLO sessions in about a week, but I'm pretty well caught up on my school work, so I hope to get some hands in today
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#18 FARGOpokerND

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 07:49 AM

I basically played a few drunken hands on Saturday, tourneys all day Sunday, and a rare day off Monday.I'm trying to avg 3k ftp pts a day each month so right now I am already 7k pts off pace for the month so the next few days it is time to catch up lol.Thank god for a good tourney day yesterday to make up for the 15bi I lost 1st 2 days of the month...time to start coming back.

#19 KingJames

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 08:32 AM

So in a 4 handed game, is this open too wide? Decent 3-card run-down, but the dangler and the lack of suits kinda sucks, right? And closing action, can we defend vs the 3bet? or just dump it pre?Then, our eq vs AAXX or KKXX isn't that great, about 30%, but if he has a light hand or even AK our equity improves. So with ~35% eq and a tiny bit of fold eq, is the shove okay?Posted ImageMoooooooooooraaawwwr.Full Tilt Pot Limit Omaha $0.02/$0.05 - 4 playersSB monopolio23: $10.35 BB p3nny777: $5.00 UTG Hero: $4.00 Button agurkinis: $3.01 Preflop: ($0.07) Hero is UTG with Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image (4 players)Hero raises to $0.15, agurkinis folds, monopolio23 raises to $0.50, p3nny777 calls $0.45, Hero calls $0.35Flop: ($1.50) Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image (3 players)monopolio23 bets $1.22, p3nny777 folds, Hero raises to $3.50, and is all in,
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#20 FARGOpokerND

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 10:44 AM

Assuming he calls the all in, you need 41% equity. Just so you know, your equity is BETTER against AAxx than against a hand like AQTx. Posted ImageIt probably is a fold. Hands like this are why they are MEH to open in games where you are going to be 3bet. I'm fine with it at a passive table.




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