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How Much Should I Love My 2 Pair On The Flop?


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#1 Rawrr

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 09:21 PM

Obviously this is situational, but sometimes I'll get in spots where I'm not comfortable with my two pair, but feel it's too strong to fold.For example:Today, playing 25NL 7 handed, CO opened 3x, and I was on the button with A9o so I called and the blinds folded. I was sort of unhappy with calling preflop to begin with, since I didn't think about it so well and he had a very tight opening range, or was getting absolutely no cards. The flop came AK9 double suited, 2 spades and a diamond, I had Ah and 9s. He bet and I was unhappy about there being a draw there, and he bet just over 1/2 the pot and I didn't want him getting cheap cards, so I raised it up. At this point, I was hoping he had something like AQ, AJ. Then something horrible happened, he raised to 10$ leaving 10 behind... I was unsure what to do here, I didn't think he would have a set of aces or kings, and even 9s seemed unlikely since I had one, but I thought he could have AK. I couldn't think of many hands he would do this with that I was beating, but lately I have had a problem folding my big hands, even when I know I should, because as a newish player I don't trust my reads all that much. I didn't want to just call since I didn't think he would be checking, if I were him at this point I would probably fire on the turn too with anything if I got a call, so I pushed and he called.Sorry I had to explain this hand like this, but not only do I have the hand history available, but it's from a site without proper HHs anyways, so it wouldn't make any sense...My question is, am I ever folding 2 pair in a spot like this. How much resistance would I need to get to fold in this spot, and did I play it okay, or should I have thrown it away?

#2 KingJames

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 11:31 PM

As played, I am sure you are in rough shape when the money goes in, so folding isn't trrbl.The biggest problem is that you made a huge mistake calling pre-flop. 3-bet or fold. A9o is just a trrbl hand to call with. You can't flop a draw. If you flop a 9, you either have a marginal, vulnerable or marginal & vulnerable hand. If you flop an A, you are in rough shape vs his better AX hands or you stand to win very little vs the QQ type hands.Before you make a call preflop, think about where the value in this hand comes from. When we flat in position with a small/medium pair or soooooted connector, we say our value comes from implied odds when we make a monster hand (a set or straight). With a hand like A9, we rarely make a monster hand and we don't have the initiative to collect dead money (as in situations where we are the pre-flop raiser).
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#3 mtdesmoines

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 02:39 AM

View PostKingJames, on Saturday, March 26th, 2011, 2:31 AM, said:

The biggest problem is that you made a huge mistake calling pre-flop. 3-bet or fold. A9o is just a trrbl hand to call with.

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#4 Rawrr

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 06:27 AM

Yeah, I'm not sure why I would call preflop with A9o anyways. I don't think I was defending in the BB, and I'm pretty sure it wasn't suited. I usually have a fairly tight preflop range since I've tightened it up a lot, so it was very very unusual for me to be calling there anyways.

#5 rrumsey

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 09:30 AM

well put KJ's.
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#6 KingJames

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 09:45 AM

View PostKingJames, on Saturday, March 26th, 2011, 1:31 AM, said:

A9o is a bad call pre-flop bc we are in rough shape vs ace-picture hands that the cutoff can be holding
fmp
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#7 trystero

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 09:57 AM

yeah, 3bet (as a bluff...) or fold preflop. I guess your 3bet can technically be for value if he's going to call you when OOP w/QJ/KQ. but, you say in the games you play that people are nitty - well, beat 'em up.

#8 Rawrr

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 10:33 AM

View Posttrystero, on Saturday, March 26th, 2011, 10:57 AM, said:

yeah, 3bet (as a bluff...) or fold preflop. I guess your 3bet can technically be for value if he's going to call you when OOP w/QJ/KQ. but, you say in the games you play that people are nitty - well, beat 'em up.
Nah, in the games I play people are spewing everywhere and calling down top pair with 2 kicker, this guy was just a nit :PAnyways, thanks for the input. Calling with A9o was way out of character for me. I even play tighter than I would normally on this site because they love to pay you off when you hit here./shameAnyways, I already knew my call was poor which was why I mentioned it in the original post, but thanks for confirming that getting it in was bad.




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