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Fold Or Call?


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#1 DiamondDixie

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Posted 19 March 2011 - 09:45 PM

I think this was probably a fold but with a short stacker it's really hard to put them on a proper range. I mean my thinking was, if he has a set why shove here. I often see this play with mid or top pair with a good kicker and I could see this guy calling my raise with A9 for sure and I could see him having top pair and a draw here. I'm really working on recognizing when I'm beat but the shove just seems silly. I tanked for a bit and ended up making the call but I'm just not sure I was right...Poker Stars $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players - View hand 1239980DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History ConverterMP2: $27.20CO: $59.30BTN: $57.05SB: $104.80BB: $50.00UTG: $53.70Hero (UTG+1): $52.35UTG+2: $41.10MP1: $36.90Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is UTG+1 with Q :ts Q :jh1 fold, Hero raises to $1.25, 1 fold, MP1 calls $1.25, MP2 calls $1.25, 2 folds, SB calls $1, 1 foldFlop: ($5.50) 5 :4h 6 :5c 9 :club: (4 players)SB checks, Hero bets $3.50, MP1 calls $3.50, MP2 raises to $25.95 all in, SB folds, Hero calls $22.45, MP1 foldsTurn: ($60.90) 9 :3h (2 players - 1 is all in)River: ($60.90) 6 :qh (2 players - 1 is all in)

#2 KingJames

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Posted 19 March 2011 - 10:41 PM

You're pre-flop raise is waaaaaaaaay too small for UTG+1 in a FR game; 1.50 min, 1.75 ideally and no one is gonna not call with A7s, so why not go with $2??Then, we don't fold over pairs for 55bbs- even in 8-way pots when we let them flop a set for cheap bc we didn't raise enough preIf you get shown the AA or KK, make a note. Bahhhh if we get shown a set, a larger raise pre cuts down on the short stacking scum implied odds...
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#3 XXEddie

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Posted 20 March 2011 - 10:07 AM

View PostDiamondDixie, on Saturday, March 19th, 2011, 11:45 PM, said:

Poker Stars $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players - View hand 1239980DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History ConverterMP2: $27.20CO: $59.30BTN: $57.05SB: $104.80BB: $50.00UTG: $53.70Hero (UTG+1): $52.35UTG+2: $41.10MP1: $36.90Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is UTG+1 with Q :ts Q :3h 1 fold, Hero raises to $1.25, 1 fold, MP1 calls $1.25, MP2 calls $1.25, 2 folds, SB calls $1, 1 foldFlop: ($5.50) 5 :4h 6 :5c 9 :club: (4 players)SB checks, Hero bets $3.50, MP1 calls $3.50, MP2 raises to $25.95 all in, SB folds, Hero calls $22.45
I'd cut the HH here btw. It will stop results biased results. Everything James said is spot on. Raise WAY more. 3x is the absolute minimum. 3.5x wouldn't be bad since you're in EP. I think I bet the flop a bit bigger too. Maybe $4-$4.50. They aren't folding a draw either way so make them pay more. The call is bleh. I guess this is 9x/88/77/some random spade draw enough to make it a call I guess. Just a bad spot in general.

#4 KingJames

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Posted 20 March 2011 - 02:38 PM

Yeah, good post, eddie. A larger c-bet is better imo
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#5 DiamondDixie

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Posted 20 March 2011 - 10:34 PM

thanks this helps - I agree about raising bigger but yeah I think it's call I have to make but don't love. He had 5 5 btw and as you said mb he would have folded to a bigger EP raise but I doubt it.

#6 SuperJon

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 02:32 AM

View PostDiamondDixie, on Monday, March 21st, 2011, 2:34 AM, said:

thanks this helps - I agree about raising bigger but yeah I think it's call I have to make but don't love. He had 5 5 btw and as you said mb he would have folded to a bigger EP raise but I doubt it.
fyiyou don't want him to fold 55 preflop when you have QQ

#7 pokerinc

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 07:21 PM

I tend to have a rule of calling stupid shoves from half stackers. The problem here is the flat from mp, then the shove. In those spots I like to let it go. I'm drunk.
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#8 mtdesmoines

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Posted 23 March 2011 - 06:44 PM

View PostDiamondDixie, on Sunday, March 20th, 2011, 12:45 AM, said:

I think this was probably a fold but with a short stacker it's really hard to put them on a proper range. I mean my thinking was, if he has a set why shove here. I often see this play with mid or top pair with a good kicker and I could see this guy calling my raise with A9 for sure and I could see him having top pair and a draw here. I'm really working on recognizing when I'm beat but the shove just seems silly. I tanked for a bit and ended up making the call but I'm just not sure I was right...Poker Stars $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players - View hand 1239980DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History ConverterMP2: $27.20CO: $59.30BTN: $57.05SB: $104.80BB: $50.00UTG: $53.70Hero (UTG+1): $52.35UTG+2: $41.10MP1: $36.90Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is UTG+1 with Q :ts Q :jh1 fold, Hero raises to $1.25, 1 fold, MP1 calls $1.25, MP2 calls $1.25, 2 folds, SB calls $1, 1 foldFlop: ($5.50) 5 :4h 6 :5c 9 :club: (4 players)SB checks, Hero bets $3.50, MP1 calls $3.50, MP2 raises to $25.95 all in, SB folds, Hero calls $22.45, MP1 foldsTurn: ($60.90) 9 :3h (2 players - 1 is all in)River: ($60.90) 6 :qh (2 players - 1 is all in)
OK, so third man in calls, sees a flop and goes berserk over a lead and a call. I don't think he's bluffing, and I think middle connectors play this way PF and smash this board. If you don't have info that he's a top pair dolt, fold.
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