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A-jo On A Blah Flop


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#1 Swift_Psycho

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Posted 06 March 2011 - 09:09 PM

$4/$8 LHE Live: Passive table that rarely raises pre-flop.I'm dealt :club: :5c in MP.Two callers to me, I raise, another MP player calls, CO calls, two limpers call.FLOP: :ts :4h :3h Checks to me, I check, MP player checks, CO bets, one limper folds, one limper calls, I call...Is peeling okay here or should I just get rid of it on the flop? Should I have actually c-bet the flop? Also, just so you understand how "close" this was for me, I would have folded the flop if I DIDN'T have the Ace of clubs, even though I know that me having it changes the math only by a little bit.Thoughts please.

#2 DinkDonk

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Posted 06 March 2011 - 09:27 PM

View PostSwift_Psycho, on Monday, March 7th, 2011, 12:09 AM, said:

$4/$8 LHE Live: Passive table that rarely raises pre-flop.I'm dealt :club: :5c in MP.Two callers to me, I raise, another MP player calls, CO calls, two limpers call.FLOP: :ts :4h :3h Checks to me, I check, MP player checks, CO bets, one limper folds, one limper calls, I call...Is peeling okay here or should I just get rid of it on the flop? Should I have actually c-bet the flop? Also, just so you understand how "close" this was for me, I would have folded the flop if I DIDN'T have the Ace of clubs, even though I know that me having it changes the math only by a little bit.Thoughts please.
Your reasoning sounds perfect. The math of having the Ace of clubs is more important than you think. It gives you like 8-10 more cards that can turn that give you a profitable peel, it blocks a lot of combos of strong hands that opponents can have, and it negates any chances of you drawing dead. I play the flop exactly the same. Sometimes I peel without the ace of clubs, but that's player dependent and a very relevant factor.

#3 KingJames

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Posted 06 March 2011 - 09:29 PM

As a no-limit player I don't mind the flop float, bc we have the Ac for bdnfd as well as the overs. I'm not entirely sure about it in a LHE game bc our implied odds are not as good.Vs a typical opponent, are we calling down if we hit a jack on the turn?edit: we're oop... so how might we play a few different turns from oop? a jack, an ace, a club, and a king?
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#4 Swift_Psycho

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Posted 06 March 2011 - 09:38 PM

View PostKingJames, on Monday, March 7th, 2011, 12:29 AM, said:

As a no-limit player I don't mind the flop float, bc we have the Ac for bdnfd as well as the overs. I'm not entirely sure about it in a LHE game bc our implied odds are not as good.Vs a typical opponent, are we calling down if we hit a jack on the turn?edit: we're oop... so how might we play a few different turns from oop? a jack, an ace, a club, and a king?
Ugh, that's a good question about what to do if a Jack hits the turn. If it's the Jack of clubs, obviously I stay in, but otherwise, I'm honestly not sure. I probably would have check/called down, but I don't know if that's right.If a club hits the turn, my plan is only to c/c, as I wouldn't dream of trying to bluff this guy off a hand (he was one of "those" guys).

#5 DinkDonk

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Posted 06 March 2011 - 09:39 PM

View PostKingJames, on Monday, March 7th, 2011, 12:29 AM, said:

As a no-limit player I don't mind the flop float, bc we have the Ac for bdnfd as well as the overs. I'm not entirely sure about it in a LHE game bc our implied odds are not as good.Vs a typical opponent, are we calling down if we hit a jack on the turn?Is a turn semi-bluff raise good if a club falls? It's a strong play in nl bc we have the nut-flush blocker and position?Could we semi-bluff raise a K? or will villains just call and c/c river with a Qx hand too often?edit: we're oop... so how might we play a few different turns from oop? a jack, an ace, a club, and a king?
Even though our implied odds are worse, our effective calling down odds are worse; We can't be shut out from drawing on favorable cards. That's important because we preserve our flop equity, whereas in NL we can be priced out of our backdoor draw. Mmmm, at high stakes I'm calling down most of the time and raising turn/betting the river for value some of the time. At mid-stakes I'm always calling down, and at low stakes I'm calling turn most of the time and folding river UI some of the time. I probably don't semi-bluff a club because there aren't many better hands that will fold and we will have a pretty good price to draw in a medium+ sized pot.I'm donking an A of any suit and c/r or donk semi-bluffing K's vs. very foldy opponents and checking and playing poker vs. others.




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