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How To Play This Hand Hu Vs Kobe2odom In A Neg-o?


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#1 CorvairShaggy

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Posted 09 February 2011 - 07:44 PM

First, let me get all the excuses out first. Already having a bad night, and for some stupid reason I join a Razz tourney and the $8.80 $16k GTD before the Neg-O. First 2 problems there. I "thought" I could handle it. Next, I was facing a critical spot in the 16k, and had to think the same time this hand came up. Here it is:Posted ImageThis converter is going to be a cash cow...PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em ($5.00+$0.50) t15/t30 - 6 playersBB ThePayne04: t1,806 UTG Hero: t3,250 UTG+1 DiamondDixi: t3,100 CO Sir_Poker86: t3,238 Button kobe2odom8: t3,738 SB superjeff13: t2,798 Preflop: (t45) Hero is UTG with :3h :jh (6 players)Hero raises to t90, 2 folds, kobe2odom8 raises to t210, 2 folds, Hero calls t120Flop: (t465) :5c :4h :club: (2 players)Hero checks, kobe2odom8 bets t125, Hero calls t125Turn: (t715) :ts (2 players)Hero checks, kobe2odom8 bets t333, Hero calls t333River: (t1,381) :qh (2 players)Hero checks, kobe2odom8 bets t870, Hero foldskobe2odom8 collected t1381Alright first off, kobe knows he owns me and I know it too. PF I figured he was trying to work me over. Flop came, and I have mid-pair with. I am in a decent spot, but I was thinking try to see if he would let me draw cheaply. My plan here was make the flush. 2nd nut should be good enough. I thought about raising here to about pot, but then what do I do if he 3-bets me here? He can do that with air, or he could do it with an Ax, or with a made flush of some kind of weird shit. I know the turn and river are garbage cards, and he did not improve. Basically I was trying to draw out to the flush. Yes, I know if a spade hits and I bet or raise, then he knows he is beat, because I play so obvious like that. But, I can at least get what he has already aggressively put into the pot. Same thought process on the flop factored in turn and river. One of my biggest flaws is not having the balls to bet big with air/weaker hands. Still trying to get there. Been playing with stove on this giving him 43% which includes all Ax combos, and making 3 spades dead cards with 5 more randoms, and I still come out with about a 67-33 edge in my favor, so I guess if I was just 1 tabling, I might have had time to punch at least the ranges in and realized I was in a better position than I realized. Basically, I had too much shit going on and was worried about getting bullied. Just a bad night overall, but at least I learned the numbers for this spot again in the future. I'll go back and look at the game chat tomorrow and work on it some more. Right now my brain is mush, and is not the best time to think about this. Thanks for the inputs.
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#2 TrueAce13

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Posted 09 February 2011 - 07:58 PM

i know it sounds sooo cliche, but really just fold or 4bet pre...he has position and is just gonna dominate you...if you were sooted, i would be more inclined to flat and play oop, but nothing really good can happen
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#3 FARGOpokerND

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Posted 09 February 2011 - 08:01 PM

If you raise to pot (we will say 800) like you said, and he jams on you with an ace (no spade) you are then calling off 2.1k to win 6.2k so prob not terrible. Of course he could always have AxKs here and you are ****ed. I think it actually isn't TOO terrible as played although I probably fold pre. Weird bet sizing though.

#4 GOCUBSGO

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Posted 09 February 2011 - 08:12 PM

against kobe?foldeverytime :club:

#5 any2canlose

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Posted 09 February 2011 - 09:08 PM

View PostTrueAce13, on Wednesday, February 9th, 2011, 7:58 PM, said:

i know it sounds sooo cliche, but really just fold or 4bet pre...he has position and is just gonna dominate you...if you were sooted, i would be more inclined to flat and play oop, but nothing really good can happen
This.Another 6 max thread where way too weak a hand is opened from EP.

#6 TrueAce13

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Posted 09 February 2011 - 09:26 PM

View Postany2canlose, on Wednesday, February 9th, 2011, 10:08 PM, said:

This.Another 6 max thread where way too weak a hand is opened from EP.
no you are wrong...opening is fine, its just the 3bet call that isn't great...the K7s open is completely fine
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#7 any2canlose

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Posted 09 February 2011 - 09:31 PM

View PostTrueAce13, on Wednesday, February 9th, 2011, 9:26 PM, said:

no you are wrong...opening is fine, its just the 3bet call that isn't great...the K7s open is completely fine
QJ off oop is only going to get you in trouble. Its a clear fold.There is way too little respect for position in the posts Ive seen.

#8 TrueAce13

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Posted 09 February 2011 - 09:35 PM

ok, only play phil hellmuth top 10 starting hands...ty
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#9 any2canlose

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Posted 09 February 2011 - 09:44 PM

View PostTrueAce13, on Wednesday, February 9th, 2011, 9:35 PM, said:

ok, only play phil hellmuth top 10 starting hands...ty
Dont be silly, thats not even close to what I said. This forum has been around forever, I cant believe it needs a basic starting hands chart for 6 max.

#10 TrueAce13

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Posted 09 February 2011 - 09:56 PM

table dynamics bro
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#11 r0llin_game

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Posted 09 February 2011 - 10:13 PM

fold pre
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#12 TrueAce13

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Posted 09 February 2011 - 10:33 PM

View Postr0llin_game, on Wednesday, February 9th, 2011, 11:13 PM, said:

fold pre
;lasjdf;lksdjf;asdlkf hud you guys win...fold preeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
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#13 Mills

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Posted 09 February 2011 - 11:56 PM

quote name='any2canlose' post='3450523' date='Wednesday, February 9th, 2011, 9:44 PM']Dont be silly, thats not even close to what I said. This forum has been around forever, I cant believe it needs a basic starting hands chart for 6 max.[/quote]There is nothing wrong with opening QJ in this spot FFS.LOL@ people telling winning players they need a basic starting hand chart ITT

#14 CorvairShaggy

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 01:30 AM

View PostTrueAce13, on Wednesday, February 9th, 2011, 11:56 PM, said:

table dynamics bro
THIS ^^^

View Postany2canlose, on Wednesday, February 9th, 2011, 11:31 PM, said:

QJ off oop is only going to get you in trouble. Its a clear fold.There is way too little respect for position in the posts Ive seen.
Ever played a Neg-O before?? Ever played kobe or highwaystar in a Neg-O before?? TA13 finished dead last tonight, and if you go back and look at previous Neg-Os, he does not fare too well. (Sorry bro, just an example :club: ) SharkScope him and see if based on his Neg-O play/results he is just really f'n lucky in everything else, or does he screw around in a Neg-O just to have fun? (ehhh, don't answer that :ts ) The game is super loose and good players can beat up on others just by playing position/bet sizing just as you said above. That's what makes a NEG-O fun, because some players like me play it seriously, and others (mostly the good players here) do just goofey, crazy shit just because. But, that is what makes these fun to play.You have read my posts here and know that I am still a learning player. Someone like kobe has seen them too, and I guarantee you if I played him HU in a tourney, he could pull an Annette and play it blind and still have an edge on me based on knowing position/bet sizing better than I do, because he has way more experience/knowledge than I do. I now that QJ off is a fold UTG in most cases, but here, change the As to something like a 5c or something really dry, and I would almost bet you he still plays the hand similar. I tried to step up to the plate and play on another level, but failed miserably. :(Just for fun, $10 says he had air here. $5 says he has Ax, and another $5 says he had no spade. Only taking 1 action per play, so my total win/lose will not exceed $20. Any takers? Action closed 24 hours from this post, and afterward he can post what he had.
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#15 babylondonks

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 04:36 AM

View PostFARGOpokerND, on Thursday, February 10th, 2011, 2:01 PM, said:

If you raise to pot (we will say 800) like you said, and he jams on you with an ace (no spade) you are then calling off 2.1k to win 6.2k so prob not terrible. Of course he could always have AxKs here and you are ****ed. I think it actually isn't TOO terrible as played although I probably fold pre. Weird bet sizing though.
I think a better course of action would be to raise to all-bar one chip so you're calling off getting like 7000-1. Makes it incredibly +ev

#16 babylondonks

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 04:36 AM

sooooooo cliche tho

#17 nroatta1986

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 05:04 AM

I would have played with those cards, reaching the flop, calling or betting a little like you did on the flop, looking for the possibility of someone just calling my bet in order they to think i have something to show a little respect as I dont have position, but when he re-raised you, that means something. He probably had the flush too or set of A or Q (why not?) and he was trying to test your will.I would have called only the flop bet, after that, not anymore, after all, you're just putting in a little more money in order to be able to go all in against his stack and win. If there were the possibility of a full (a pair in the table, fold instantly if you dont have the flush!) but it was too much money to reach to the final...besides...if a 6 of spades came, you would have to fold too. He might have a full house with that play!.You will say, besides, he preflop with AA or QQ??? Probably...pair in hand, pair in table...A...dude...just fold!!! He had you covered all the way...In my only thread I comment I had a hand just like this. A9s hearts. Preflop Button Bet...I Call. Flop...two hearts...Button bets...I call...hearts comes out....BINGO!!!Only see one card...two...it will cost you!!!

#18 HighwayStar

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 05:05 AM

rrumsey?
.

#19 donk4life

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 07:48 AM

View Postany2canlose, on Wednesday, February 9th, 2011, 11:31 PM, said:

QJ off oop is only going to get you in trouble. Its a clear fold.There is way too little respect for position in the posts Ive seen.
lol, why do you think an utg raise is automatically going to be playing the hand OOP?

View Postakashenk, on 02 August 2012 - 06:44 AM, said:

I don't mind folding out hands we beat.

#20 donk4life

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 07:50 AM

ya ffs how do we not know what hands to play in a 6 max tournament! we're so terrible!

View Postakashenk, on 02 August 2012 - 06:44 AM, said:

I don't mind folding out hands we beat.




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