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#1461 Balloon guy

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 08:30 AM

View Posttimwakefield, on Wednesday, April 18th, 2012, 9:11 AM, said:

You didn't answer my question at all.
Your question was silly

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And why do you get to decide whether or not healthcare is a right? Could you at least attempt to explain that statement? It's meaningless without an explanation, because the obvious comeback is, "But it should be."
If only I had explained this in my posts....it really would have been a good time to do that...

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Why is primary education a right? Whatever rights American citizens have are simply what the government decides we should have, or should have protection from. So no, healthcare is not currently a right of every American, but it will be if the Democrats get their way.
Education is not a right. A larger and larger number of students don't get a high school education. The democrat party is incapable of actually doing anything of value, so I wouldn't hold my breath...Well other than increase the national debt in 39 months more than Bush did in 8 years.

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No I did not. You seem to think everybody to the left of the Republican party is one person. I think that's where your problem starts. Cue you saying, "Nuh uh cuz Democrats do whatever you're accusing me of and do it way worse!"
Well there you go, you personally did not create the welfare program.I guess healthcare and mother government are an inevitability now.I wish I had some way to stop it, but if you personally did not sign the law to create welfare...I lose.
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#1462 timwakefield

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 09:07 AM

View PostBalloon guy, on Wednesday, April 18th, 2012, 12:30 PM, said:

I wish I had some way to stop it, but if you personally did not sign the law to create welfare...I lose.
My point was that you perhaps shouldn't blame me personally for it. That was of course just an example of my larger point, which I spelled out but maybe you ignored, regarding the ridiculous way you characterize anybody to the left of you.

View PostBalloon guy, on Wednesday, April 18th, 2012, 12:30 PM, said:

Education is not a right. A larger and larger number of students don't get a high school education.
Education is not only a right, but it's the law. And I can't tell if you're criticizing how bad public schools are or if you're simply saying that lots of High Schoolers drop out.
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#1463 akoff

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 09:43 AM

View Posttimwakefield, on Wednesday, April 18th, 2012, 7:07 AM, said:

Would you rather be dependent on the government for healthcare or not have healthcare? Pretend those were your options.
they are not the only options currently and with a little bit of luck they not be the only options in the future or we all will in deep trouble.

View Posttimwakefield, on Wednesday, April 18th, 2012, 8:11 AM, said:

Why is primary education a right? Whatever rights American citizens have are simply what the government decides we should have, or should have protection from.
a right is different then being forced to purchase something...that is a fairly basic concept that i am sure you will struggle to get your arms around.the healthcare law was written with the intent to kill the insurance business and over the course of a few years make all people be on governemnt healthcare. it is up to you if you chose not to believe that. They (democrats) got greedy and were so arrogant (hard to believe) that they didn't bother to consider if it was legal...well played guys!! it is actually hard to believe that they were as stupid as they were, people like you should look direct to your leaders when this falls because they 100 percent to blame. Hope and change LOL.bottom line is forced healthcare is nothing close to the public schools - now stop being silly.
"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America 's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the US Government cannot pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. Increasing America 's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that, "the buck stops here.' Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."
~ Senator Barack H. Obama

#1464 timwakefield

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 09:58 AM

View Postakoff, on Wednesday, April 18th, 2012, 1:43 PM, said:

they are not the only options currently and with a little bit of luck they not be the only options in the future or we all will in deep trouble.
It is if you cannot afford health insurance and your state doesn't offer free or subsidized insurance (like Massachusetts and some other states do).

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a right is different then being forced to purchase something...that is a fairly basic concept that i am sure you will struggle to get your arms around.
Children aren't being forced to purchase anything, but they would be forced to have health insurance. Seriously, the importance of universal healthcare is in insuring poor children, not lazy adults.

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bottom line is forced healthcare is nothing close to the public schools - now stop being silly.
It is if you're a child.
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#1465 Balloon guy

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 10:10 AM

Really?Poor sick children will die if we don't do this now?While those selfish children who's parents chose to get insurance instead of a new Ipad are allowed to live????It's a national tragedy!And if it was true, then you wold have a point
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#1466 akoff

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 10:16 AM

View Posttimwakefield, on Wednesday, April 18th, 2012, 10:58 AM, said:

It is if you cannot afford health insurance and your state doesn't offer free or subsidized insurance (like Massachusetts and some other states do).see you just provided an option - move to Mass - or you could get a better job...people seem to think this is free. it is not society’s job to take care of anyone from craddle to grave, take care of your damn self or do without.Seriously, the importance of universal healthcare is in insuring poor children, not lazy adults. that is not what is currently on the table and to the best of my knowledge never been discussedi would be ok with a conversation on it. as long as they day you turn 18 you get your ass thrown off the program unless you are in college and after 4 years of college you are gone and if you don't pass you are gone, and if you have children you are gone and if you fail a drug test you are gone etc... i am not saying i would agree to any of that but it would be a discussion point.

"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America 's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the US Government cannot pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. Increasing America 's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that, "the buck stops here.' Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."
~ Senator Barack H. Obama

#1467 DJ Vu

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 10:18 AM

Yeah, just move to a new state or get a new job. Duh.

#1468 The Ocho

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 10:24 AM

View PostDJ Vu, on Wednesday, April 18th, 2012, 11:18 AM, said:

Yeah, just move to a new state or get a new job. Duh.
Are you talking to Shake?

#1469 timwakefield

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 10:26 AM

View PostBalloon guy, on Wednesday, April 18th, 2012, 2:10 PM, said:

Really?Poor sick children will die if we don't do this now?While those selfish children who's parents chose to get insurance instead of a new Ipad are allowed to live????It's a national tragedy!And if it was true, then you wold have a point
Well it kind of is true. You're saying there aren't poor and uninsured children in this country? Akoff - I would agree with that plan. I never said the current bill is awesome.
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#1470 akoff

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 10:30 AM

View PostDJ Vu, on Wednesday, April 18th, 2012, 10:18 AM, said:

Yeah, just move to a new state or get a new job. Duh.
it isn't a right...that is a very simple concept that you seem to be missing. if you want something (health insurance in this case) given to you the options are to move to where it is provided or better yourself so somebody wants to provide you it or do without.This a concept you may not understand, most employers are happy to provide healthcare - it is a benefit of a productive job...you don't have to be super smart or super talented. if you show up 5 days a week, work an honest 8 and follow the rules you will by in large have healthcare...however most of the idiots that don't have healthcare already are not capable of that and most certainly shouldn't be having kids!!!
"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America 's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the US Government cannot pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. Increasing America 's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that, "the buck stops here.' Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."
~ Senator Barack H. Obama

#1471 timwakefield

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 10:38 AM

View Postakoff, on Wednesday, April 18th, 2012, 2:30 PM, said:

it isn't a right...that is a very simple concept that you seem to be missing.
Things are only rights because the government decides they should be rights. In many other countries healthcare is a right. That's also a very simple concept.Regarding how many American children don't have insurance, it's 7.3 million. "Don't have kids" is not a very realistic platform.
Karl: She was a bit -- what's the word that you can use, cuz I don't wanna offend anyone?
Steve: Was she a homeless person?
Karl: Yeah but sort of mental homeless.

#1472 DJ Vu

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 10:40 AM

View Postakoff, on Wednesday, April 18th, 2012, 11:30 AM, said:

it isn't a right...that is a very simple concept that you seem to be missing. if you want something (health insurance in this case) given to you the options are to move to where it is provided or better yourself so somebody wants to provide you it or do without.This a concept you may not understand, most employers are happy to provide healthcare - it is a benefit of a productive job...you don't have to be super smart or super talented. if you show up 5 days a week, work an honest 8 and follow the rules you will by in large have healthcare...however most of the idiots that don't have healthcare already are not capable of that and most certainly shouldn't be having kids!!!
Your condescension is a different kind of funny than mk's condescension.

#1473 brvheart

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 11:23 AM

View PostCaneBrain, on Wednesday, April 18th, 2012, 8:55 AM, said:

I think the fact that the mandate was originally a conservative idea is funny.
No one on Earth would call anyone from Massachusetts conservative. Feel free to call Mitt the Great a Republican, but calling him a conservative is an outright lie.
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View PostSuitedAces21, on 20 August 2012 - 11:14 AM, said:

tilt you suck.

View PostEssay21, on 25 February 2013 - 08:32 PM, said:

titly suck a dick bitch

#1474 brvheart

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 11:25 AM

View Posttimwakefield, on Wednesday, April 18th, 2012, 10:07 AM, said:

Would you rather be dependent on the government for healthcare or not have healthcare? Pretend those were your options.
You need to at least come up with a realistic hypothetical.
CAPITALISM: God's way of determining who is smart and who is poor. - Ron Swanson ---> Video:Ron's Pyramid of Greatness Picture: Poster Size


View PostSuitedAces21, on 20 August 2012 - 11:14 AM, said:

tilt you suck.

View PostEssay21, on 25 February 2013 - 08:32 PM, said:

titly suck a dick bitch

#1475 CaneBrain

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 01:11 PM

View PostBalloon guy, on Wednesday, April 18th, 2012, 11:47 AM, said:

No one should be forced to pay for someone else's healthcare because that person chose to instead buy a jet ski.
And yet this is exactly what we do because we don't let people without insurance die. Since we are saving these people either way, might as well make them have insurance. If you want to be "pro-letting uninsured people die", go right ahead at least it will be a logically consistent argument unlike most of your arguments.
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#1476 CaneBrain

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 01:14 PM

View Postbrvheart, on Wednesday, April 18th, 2012, 3:23 PM, said:

No one on Earth would call anyone from Massachusetts conservative. Feel free to call Mitt the Great a Republican, but calling him a conservative is an outright lie.
How about calling Newt Gingrich a conservative: http://www.theatlant...ay-2009/252233/You assumed I was talking about Mitt but I never actually said Mitt. The mandate was a conservative idea from the 1990s. It was started by the Heritage Foundation: http://healthcareref...sourceID=004182 That article references Congressman Grassley by the way, who once introduced mandate legislation and now called the President an idiot on twitter for questioning the Supreme Court about the mandate. No one on Earth would call you well informed?
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#1477 brvheart

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 01:52 PM

Grassley isn't a conservative either, but I didn't read the article you posted, so I don't know what Newt said. However, Newt is usually all over the map depending on the issue, so it wouldn't surprise me at all to find that at some point in his history he would have taken a position on something that wasn't conservative. It's also important to note that it's illegal, and so it doesn't matter how much democrats really really really want to force people to buy stuff.
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View PostSuitedAces21, on 20 August 2012 - 11:14 AM, said:

tilt you suck.

View PostEssay21, on 25 February 2013 - 08:32 PM, said:

titly suck a dick bitch

#1478 Balloon guy

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 03:22 PM

View PostCaneBrain, on Wednesday, April 18th, 2012, 2:11 PM, said:

And yet this is exactly what we do because we don't let people without insurance die. Since we are saving these people either way, might as well make them have insurance. If you want to be "pro-letting uninsured people die", go right ahead at least it will be a logically consistent argument unlike most of your arguments.
Then everyone does have health coverage already?Which means you are going to create the largest government bureaucracy ever, even though it isn't needed.I guess you are being logistically consistent then...
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#1479 Balloon guy

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 03:25 PM

View Posttimwakefield, on Wednesday, April 18th, 2012, 11:38 AM, said:

Things are only rights because the government decides they should be rights.
And this is why you are the most wrong.You have decided that the state is your god...and you want us all to believe in the power of the state.
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#1480 CaneBrain

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 03:31 PM

View Postbrvheart, on Wednesday, April 18th, 2012, 5:52 PM, said:

Grassley isn't a conservative either, but I didn't read the article you posted, so I don't know what Newt said. However, Newt is usually all over the map depending on the issue, so it wouldn't surprise me at all to find that at some point in his history he would have taken a position on something that wasn't conservative. It's also important to note that it's illegal, and so it doesn't matter how much democrats really really really want to force people to buy stuff.
It's perhaps unconstitutional according to five people who think strip searching anyone arrested for anything is ok.Also, the mandate was at some point in history (1990s) the mainstream conservative position on health care. If you read the article, you'd understand that.
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