Jump to content


4 Handed In A $12 180


  • Please log in to reply
38 replies to this topic

#1 HighwayStar

HighwayStar

    Tangled up in blue.

  • Members
  • 8,103 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, England

Posted 14 January 2011 - 12:49 PM

Posted ImageFeral Cow Poker Hand ConverterPokerStars No-Limit Hold'em ($11+$1) t3000/t6000 ante t600 - 4 playersButton: t137,601 SB: t83,429 (Hero)BB: t14,184 UTG: t34,786 Preflop: (t11,400) Hero is SB with Posted Image Posted Image (4 players)UTG folds, Button raises to t137001 and is all-in, Hero?BTN is a decent reg. As is UTG if that makes any difference to future.Payouts = 594/396/236/158
.

#2 custom36

custom36

    FCP Veteran, Politico

  • Members
  • 16,157 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Wisconsin
  • Favorite Poker Game:Limit Hold'em

Posted 14 January 2011 - 01:19 PM

Pretty quick fold for me. You both have a significant chip lead on the other 2. There's better places to get it in.

#3 HighwayStar

HighwayStar

    Tangled up in blue.

  • Members
  • 8,103 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, England

Posted 14 January 2011 - 01:23 PM

worst hand/range of hands to call with?
.

#4 Darth Maple

Darth Maple

    Poker Forum Nut

  • Members
  • 365 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Favorite Poker Game:NLHE

Posted 14 January 2011 - 01:23 PM

I insta call this.

#5 outsider13

outsider13

    Poker Forum Veteran

  • Members
  • 4,132 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 14 January 2011 - 01:27 PM

QQ+ imo

#6 meservery

meservery

    I've climbed the stairway to maturity!

  • Members
  • 1,539 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Some Place Awesome
  • Interests:Hermione Granger, Luna Lovegood, Cho Chang, etc.
  • Favorite Poker Game:PLO

Posted 14 January 2011 - 01:41 PM

Isn't button shoving tons here with BB being super short, and thinking that you would never call light with 2 stacks less than half the size as you. TT seems to be not a light call here.And if you call and win, your percent chance to win the whole fukking thing goes up dramatically. i dont know icm.Hows your heads up game? Is it good enough to overcome more than a 2-1 chip disadvantage?(I maybe have played 10 tournies in the past year.)

#7 outsider13

outsider13

    Poker Forum Veteran

  • Members
  • 4,132 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 14 January 2011 - 01:49 PM

I don't thinks it's a matter of winning or losing, or even how much we need to make up on the chip leader. It's how much cash equity we are risking by calling here and being probably a 2-1 favorite. Basically we'd be losing this hand 1/3 times and allowing the 2 shorter stacks to reap the reward. edit - and fwiw, I don't think a call is horrible at all. It's actually very close to neutral, but definitely -$EV.

#8 Mills

Mills

    Poker Forum Groupie

  • Members
  • 557 posts

Posted 14 January 2011 - 01:57 PM

View Postoutsider13, on Friday, January 14th, 2011, 1:49 PM, said:

I don't thinks it's a matter of winning or losing, or even how much we need to make up on the chip leader. It's how much cash equity we are risking by calling here and being probably a 2-1 favorite. Basically we'd be losing this hand 1/3 times and allowing the 2 shorter stacks to reap the reward. edit - and fwiw, I don't think a call is horrible at all. It's actually very close to neutral, but definitely -$EV.
Understood, but isn't this something that a competent bigstack can exploit the F out of?

#9 outsider13

outsider13

    Poker Forum Veteran

  • Members
  • 4,132 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 14 January 2011 - 02:01 PM

View PostMills, on Friday, January 14th, 2011, 3:57 PM, said:

Understood, but isn't this something that a competent bigstack can exploit the F out of?
Yup, as he should.

#10 CorvairShaggy

CorvairShaggy

    Poker Forum Groupie

  • Members
  • 794 posts

Posted 14 January 2011 - 02:10 PM

View Postoutsider13, on Friday, January 14th, 2011, 3:49 PM, said:

edit - and fwiw, I don't think a call is horrible at all. It's actually very close to neutral, but definitely -$EV.
Under normal circumstances, I would grunt and cuss and take a ton of time, but fold. Main reason is BB can only see a few more hands, and has like no fold equity against the big stack, and very little against you. Take the safe road and pickup the extra $75.BUT....This may sound stupid, and may be a huge problem for me, but it really depends on how my day/session/week has been going. If I am up and in a gambling mood, I make the call, partly becasue of this:

View PostMills, on Friday, January 14th, 2011, 3:57 PM, said:

Understood, but isn't this something that a competent bigstack can exploit the F out of?
Does this make any sense, or is this mentality just completely idiotic???
- - - - "It annoys me when players who play the tour for three years and don't do anything chalk it up to "variance." Yeah, has nothing to do with the fact that you suck... you are just unlucky." - - - - - Daniel Negreanu 1-21-2011 Blog

#11 outsider13

outsider13

    Poker Forum Veteran

  • Members
  • 4,132 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 14 January 2011 - 04:09 PM

View PostCorvairShaggy, on Friday, January 14th, 2011, 4:10 PM, said:

Under normal circumstances, I would grunt and cuss and take a ton of time, but fold. Main reason is BB can only see a few more hands, and has like no fold equity against the big stack, and very little against you. Take the safe road and pickup the extra $75.BUT....This may sound stupid, and may be a huge problem for me, but it really depends on how my day/session/week has been going. If I am up and in a gambling mood, I make the call, partly becasue of this:Does this make any sense, or is this mentality just completely idiotic???
A lot of regs spite call in spots like this. I've done it a lot, and a lot wide than TT. It's sometimes hard not to because you dominate villains range. I ran the math earlier and I think it's close to +47k cEV, but still -$EV

#12 TrueAce13

TrueAce13

    FCP Resident Donk

  • Members
  • 4,853 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ohio
  • Favorite Poker Game:PLO NLHE

Posted 14 January 2011 - 07:07 PM

we have tens! i dunno...first thought was to snap call, but now that i think about icm, i dunno...i sitll prolly get it in
Pokerstars: TrueAce13 (Willard)
FT: TrueAce13
My First Poker Blog, please read and help me get better!

#13 MaxStPolish

MaxStPolish

    Lenny = White Carl = black

  • Members
  • 2,986 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Chicagoland
  • Favorite Poker Game:PLO

Posted 14 January 2011 - 09:34 PM

Interesting hand. Thanks for sharing. I'm pretty certain I fold this assuming my trigger doesn't auto-snap just seeing tens four handed. ICM discussion itt.My question is that while this is a standard chip leader strategy w/ wide range.....does the fact that he's shoving into a BB with less than 3BBs (actually 2 after he posts here) factor at all into the fold? The notion that he knows essentially he will be going to showdown on this hand. Not to say that his hand range gets TOO tight, but it does shrink considerably from the "ATC" I would otherwise put him on if the short stack was UTG and you and 3rd place were in the blinds. Then again, I don't think he ever plays AA/KK this way, which only bolsters your crushing of the range.It's a fold...but it's a fold that leaves you unsatisfied, esp when BB doubles up though button in a junk showdown that TT would have taken down.

#14 Donnie Ray

Donnie Ray

    Poker Forum Newbie

  • Members
  • 58 posts
  • Favorite Poker Game:nlhe

Posted 15 January 2011 - 12:58 AM

good comments thus far. villian shoves with a super wide range that would gladly get it in vs super short bb. i would snap call and lose vs jto. if you run better then i, win this hand win the tourney. no way your behind. play for the win, if it was 55 66 it would be different.

#15 HighwayStar

HighwayStar

    Tangled up in blue.

  • Members
  • 8,103 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, England

Posted 15 January 2011 - 03:53 AM

View PostMaxStPolish, on Saturday, January 15th, 2011, 5:34 AM, said:

My question is that while this is a standard chip leader strategy w/ wide range.....does the fact that he's shoving into a BB with less than 3BBs (actually 2 after he posts here) factor at all into the fold? The notion that he knows essentially he will be going to showdown on this hand. Not to say that his hand range gets TOO tight, but it does shrink considerably from the "ATC" I would otherwise put him on if the short stack was UTG and you and 3rd place were in the blinds.
It may affect his range for sure. It probably shouldn't much....assuming I fold 98% Of the time 32o has 32% against a random hand from the BB so is kinda getting the right "price" with 11.4k in dead money and only 8k in play.In reality I thinbk I'm probably jamming around 60% in his spot ...but usually the SB won't consider folding TT here. He also might not think I would be thinking of folding a hand like this here..we've played a fair bit together but that doesn't neccessarily mean much....a lot of regs won't fold 66 here.In terms of the ICM calculation I'm not sure how much a 60% range vs a 100% range changes the numbers/calling ranges...probably very little.

Quote

Then again, I don't think he ever plays AA/KK this way, which only bolsters your crushing of the range.
You might be right but I'm not convinced of this. Definitely a possibility.edit - in retrospect I think you are right in 90% of circumstances...this probably changes the ICM calculation more than the 40% of hands he may or may not have..
.

#16 MaxStPolish

MaxStPolish

    Lenny = White Carl = black

  • Members
  • 2,986 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Chicagoland
  • Favorite Poker Game:PLO

Posted 15 January 2011 - 08:36 AM

View PostHighwayStar, on Saturday, January 15th, 2011, 5:53 AM, said:

It may affect his range for sure. It probably shouldn't much....assuming I fold 98% Of the time 32o has 32% against a random hand from the BB so is kinda getting the right "price" with 11.4k in dead money and only 8k in play.In reality I thinbk I'm probably jamming around 60% in his spot ...but usually the SB won't consider folding TT here. He also might not think I would be thinking of folding a hand like this here..we've played a fair bit together but that doesn't neccessarily mean much....a lot of regs won't fold 66 here.In terms of the ICM calculation I'm not sure how much a 60% range vs a 100% range changes the numbers/calling ranges...probably very little.You might be right but I'm not convinced of this. Definitely a possibility.edit - in retrospect I think you are right in 90% of circumstances...this probably changes the ICM calculation more than the 40% of hands he may or may not have..
So your contention would be that this actually shifts the caluclation in the direction of calling, since we're fairly comfortable removing half of the start hands that dominate you from his expected range?

#17 HighwayStar

HighwayStar

    Tangled up in blue.

  • Members
  • 8,103 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, England

Posted 15 January 2011 - 08:45 AM

Probably, yes. Still dunno if it's a call.
.

#18 outsider13

outsider13

    Poker Forum Veteran

  • Members
  • 4,132 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 15 January 2011 - 09:09 AM

I think he's probably just as likely to shove AA as J9s there. I think it's looks more fishy to shove and is more likely to get a call, so I don't think there are any hands from his raising range that should be excluded, imo.

#19 outsider13

outsider13

    Poker Forum Veteran

  • Members
  • 4,132 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 15 January 2011 - 09:16 AM

Also, if the button shoves 100%, its a call. 60% is pretty much neutral and you should be passing up neutral spots when you have an edge like this.100%Posted Image60%Posted Image40%Posted Image

#20 riverrat

riverrat

    Poker Forum Newbie

  • Members
  • 19 posts
  • Favorite Poker Game:NLHE

Posted 15 January 2011 - 09:16 AM

View PostHighwayStar, on Saturday, January 15th, 2011, 11:45 AM, said:

Probably, yes. Still dunno if it's a call.
You stated that you knew this guy and that he was a pretty solid player? Any chance at all that he is simply hoping to look somewhat weak and could have QQ or better? If you know him I assume that he also knows you as well. Just curious if you ever give a guy credit for thinking on 2nd and 3rd levels at these levels online.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users