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Wonkers Gonna Wonk (rush) (fr) (.25/.50)


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#1 CobaltBlue

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Posted 08 January 2011 - 01:04 AM

No reads. I'm very confused throughout. Anyone like something different? Calling or raising river? If raising, to what?Posted ImageFeral Cow PokerHEM/Full Tilt NL Hold'em $0.25/$0.50 - 9 playersMP: $46.95 MP2: $61.30 HJ: $83.15 CO: $50.00 Button: $202.40 (Hero)SB: $75.15 BB: $61.35 UTG: $29.25 UTG+1: $21.80 Preflop: ($0.75) Hero is Button with :ts :4h (9 players)UTG folds, UTG+1 calls $0.50, MP calls $0.50, MP2 calls $0.50, 2 folds, Hero raises to $3.25, 3 folds, MP raises to $6.00, MP2 folds, Hero calls $2.75Flop: ($13.75) :qh :club: :5c (2 players)MP bets $0.50, Hero calls $0.50Turn: ($14.75) :jh (2 players)MP bets $0.50, Hero raises to $9.00, MP calls $8.50River: ($32.75) :3h (2 players)MP bets $0.50, Hero ?

#2 fighter

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Posted 08 January 2011 - 02:24 AM

I would shove river and expect calls from a lot of Ax's thinking they chop.

#3 BellaireDrew

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Posted 08 January 2011 - 04:02 PM

View Postfighter, on Saturday, January 8th, 2011, 4:24 AM, said:

I would shove river and expect calls from a lot of Ax's thinking they chop.
agreed
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#4 rrumsey

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Posted 08 January 2011 - 07:03 PM

i may bitch out and call here tbh just so i can note this guy. i would hate to not have the note of WTF this guy is doing here. its so close imo. like a donk would probably bet bigger on the river so it is probably a bet fold. so a shove is probably fine. but hell it is a weird line from him.
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#5 mtdesmoines

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Posted 08 January 2011 - 10:23 PM

View PostCobaltBlue, on Saturday, January 8th, 2011, 3:04 AM, said:

No reads. I'm very confused throughout. Anyone like something different? Calling or raising river? If raising, to what?Posted ImageFeral Cow PokerHEM/Full Tilt NL Hold'em $0.25/$0.50 - 9 playersMP: $46.95 MP2: $61.30 HJ: $83.15 CO: $50.00 Button: $202.40 (Hero)SB: $75.15 BB: $61.35 UTG: $29.25 UTG+1: $21.80 Preflop: ($0.75) Hero is Button with :ts :4h (9 players)UTG folds, UTG+1 calls $0.50, MP calls $0.50, MP2 calls $0.50, 2 folds, Hero raises to $3.25, 3 folds, MP raises to $6.00, MP2 folds, Hero calls $2.75Flop: ($13.75) :qh :club: :5c (2 players)MP bets $0.50, Hero calls $0.50Turn: ($14.75) :jh (2 players)MP bets $0.50, Hero raises to $9.00, MP calls $8.50River: ($32.75) :3h (2 players)MP bets $0.50, Hero ?
I think raising the river is pretty awkward due to stack sizes. I think if we believed we were ahead, the turn was prob the place to bulk the pot.
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#6 pokerinc

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 01:54 AM

flat and note works for me here.
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#7 fighter

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 02:26 AM

If he folds to a shove, I think we have a good enough note. He is a fish and this is in rush. No way the note makes up for the loss of value.

#8 CobaltBlue

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 06:30 AM

I guess my dilemma here is that so many Rush players are so nitty that it seems like it'd be hard for our shove to get called by worse. I know that contradicts the K3 hand I posted the other day, but I just don't see many villains attempting to call off here with just an ace. The fact that he overlimp/min-re-raised has got to raise some flags. It'd be incredibly strange for him to have any hand...but I think he should technically mostly have big premiums in the AA/AK/KK/JJ range. Obviously, we need to discount that somewhat because of our hand and because of his bet-sizing...but I still think hands like those are going to constitute most of his calling range if we shove the river.

#9 David_Nicoson

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 12:13 PM

Villain has AK, right?
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#10 fighter

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 10:48 PM

View PostCobaltBlue, on Monday, January 10th, 2011, 12:30 AM, said:

I guess my dilemma here is that so many Rush players are so nitty that it seems like it'd be hard for our shove to get called by worse. I know that contradicts the K3 hand I posted the other day, but I just don't see many villains attempting to call off here with just an ace. The fact that he overlimp/min-re-raised has got to raise some flags. It'd be incredibly strange for him to have any hand...but I think he should technically mostly have big premiums in the AA/AK/KK/JJ range. Obviously, we need to discount that somewhat because of our hand and because of his bet-sizing...but I still think hands like those are going to constitute most of his calling range if we shove the river.
good rush players are nitty. Bad players are just bad. As for the bolded

View PostCobaltBlue, on Thursday, January 6th, 2011, 4:35 AM, said:

Results:Opponent thought for only a moment before calling with Krablar (:ts :club:).
i know it is a different opponent but he is using the same sort of min bets and probably the same sort of thought process (or lack of thought process)If he had a polerized range then I would agree 100%. However this sort of clicking buttons l/rr min bet sort of player isn't. He could have any sort of Ax.

#11 Jbird

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 02:38 PM

View PostCobaltBlue, on Saturday, January 8th, 2011, 3:04 AM, said:

No reads. I'm very confused throughout. Anyone like something different? Calling or raising river? If raising, to what?Posted ImageFeral Cow PokerHEM/Full Tilt NL Hold'em $0.25/$0.50 - 9 playersMP: $46.95 MP2: $61.30 HJ: $83.15 CO: $50.00 Button: $202.40 (Hero)SB: $75.15 BB: $61.35 UTG: $29.25 UTG+1: $21.80 Preflop: ($0.75) Hero is Button with :ts :4h (9 players)UTG folds, UTG+1 calls $0.50, MP calls $0.50, MP2 calls $0.50, 2 folds, Hero raises to $3.25, 3 folds, MP raises to $6.00, MP2 folds, Hero calls $2.75Flop: ($13.75) :qh :club: :5c (2 players)MP bets $0.50, Hero calls $0.50Turn: ($14.75) :jh (2 players)MP bets $0.50, Hero raises to $9.00, MP calls $8.50River: ($32.75) :3h (2 players)MP bets $0.50, Hero ?
Fold Pre, Raise turn more, im bumping it up to $14.

#12 CobaltBlue

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 09:02 PM

View PostJbird, on Tuesday, January 11th, 2011, 5:38 PM, said:

Fold Pre, Raise turn more, im bumping it up to $14.
If he were shorter, we might be able to fold pre, but I just don't think we can fold here pre for $2.75 into $11 with $40 behind and having position.Anyway, I do agree with y'all that turn might need to be a smidge bigger. I somewhat wussed out on the river and just called. He had Ad9d, and I took the pot.

#13 Jbird

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 10:58 AM

View PostCobaltBlue, on Tuesday, January 11th, 2011, 11:02 PM, said:

If he were shorter, we might be able to fold pre, but I just don't think we can fold here pre for $2.75 into $11 with $40 behind and having position.Anyway, I do agree with y'all that turn might need to be a smidge bigger. I somewhat wussed out on the river and just called. He had Ad9d, and I took the pot.
I fold this pre 90% of the time, think about it. The reason you gave for calling is that your deeper than normal but in reality thats the reason you should be folding. Hero called the 3bet gets the best possible outcome on the flop/turn and still failed to make a decent pot. Your AJ is in a spot where your likely to be way behind pre. If villain has KK-TT and an A flops you never make $$$, however if he has you dominanted your likely to lose a bigger pot. In the times that you do have the villain dominanted it can be hard for a lot of people to extract full value, again you hit your hand and were still hesitant to build a pot.The only way I call this pre is if villain plays very spewy.

#14 fighter

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 02:22 PM

View PostJbird, on Thursday, January 13th, 2011, 4:58 AM, said:

I fold this pre 90% of the time, think about it. The reason you gave for calling is that your deeper than normal but in reality thats the reason you should be folding. Hero called the 3bet gets the best possible outcome on the flop/turn and still failed to make a decent pot. Your AJ is in a spot where your likely to be way behind pre. If villain has KK-TT and an A flops you never make $$$, however if he has you dominanted your likely to lose a bigger pot. In the times that you do have the villain dominanted it can be hard for a lot of people to extract full value, again you hit your hand and were still hesitant to build a pot.The only way I call this pre is if villain plays very spewy.
Your right Jbird. AJ puts us in some tough spots. Since tough spots are tough we shouldn't play it.

#15 SuperJon

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 03:12 PM

View Postfighter, on Wednesday, January 12th, 2011, 5:22 PM, said:

Your right Jbird. AJ puts us in some tough spots. Since tough spots are tough we shouldn't play it.
But what if we play better than our opponents in tough spots?Is something like that even possible?

#16 XXEddie

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 03:25 PM

View PostJbird, on Wednesday, January 12th, 2011, 12:58 PM, said:

I fold this pre 90% of the time, think about it. The reason you gave for calling is that your deeper than normal but in reality thats the reason you should be folding. Hero called the 3bet gets the best possible outcome on the flop/turn and still failed to make a decent pot. Your AJ is in a spot where your likely to be way behind pre. If villain has KK-TT and an A flops you never make $$, however if he has you dominanted your likely to lose a bigger pot. In the times that you do have the villain dominanted it can be hard for a lot of people to extract full value, again you hit your hand and were still hesitant to build a pot.The only way I call this pre is if villain plays very spewy.
You shouldn't fold hands because you have 'too much' in a cash game. If you find yourself doing that chances are your afraid to risk your profit without being 100% confident you have your opponent beat. Usually that's because the money means too much for you, so maybe you should drop down in limits or not play.

#17 XXEddie

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 03:26 PM

View PostSuperJon, on Wednesday, January 12th, 2011, 5:12 PM, said:

But what if we play better than our opponents in tough spots?Is something like that even possible?
Yes, but legally only Phil Hellmuth is allowed to do it.... Or Tom Dwan if you are playing on the interwebz.

#18 Jbird

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 03:33 PM

View PostXXEddie, on Wednesday, January 12th, 2011, 5:25 PM, said:

You shouldn't fold hands because you have 'too much' in a cash game. If you find yourself doing that chances are your afraid to risk your profit without being 100% confident you have your opponent beat. Usually that's because the money means too much for you, so maybe you should drop down in limits or not play.
Its not a fold b/c I am scared of losing the cash. The reasons for not calling were stated previously, the fact we are deep complicates things further.

#19 XXEddie

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 04:13 PM

View PostJbird, on Wednesday, January 12th, 2011, 5:33 PM, said:

Its not a fold b/c I am scared of losing the cash. The reasons for not calling were stated previously, the fact we are deep complicates things further.
I can't think of another reason somebody would consider being deeper than normal a reason to fold.

#20 CobaltBlue

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 05:59 PM

View PostXXEddie, on Wednesday, January 12th, 2011, 7:13 PM, said:

I can't think of another reason somebody would consider being deeper than normal a reason to fold.
When you're deep and out of position, there are hands that you might fold that you'd 3-bet or call if you were shallower.That said, I just can't get behind folding this IP for that size bet pre.




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