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Played Correctly?


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#1 All_In

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Posted 24 December 2010 - 10:09 PM

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 4.4 Tournament, 100/200 Blinds (7 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comBB (BB) (t15895)UTG (t23686)MP1 (t5263)MP2 (t26276)CO (CO) (t15146)Button (t3236)Hero (SB) (SB) (t19236)Hero (SB)'s M: 64.12Preflop: Hero (SB) is SB with K :ts, Q :3h3 folds, CO calls t200, 1 fold, Hero (SB) calls t100, BB checksFlop: (t600) 8 :D, K :club:, 9 :D (3 players)Hero (SB) bets t400, BB calls t400, CO calls t400Turn: (t1800) 8 :4h (3 players)Hero (SB) bets t800, BB calls t800, CO calls t800River: (t4200) 2 :D (3 players)Hero (SB) bets t1000, BB calls t1000, 1 foldTotal pot: t6200Results below: Hero (SB) had K :5c, Q :qh (two pair, Kings and eights).BB had K :jh, A :D (two pair, Kings and eights).Outcome: BB won t6375
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#2 KingJames

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Posted 25 December 2010 - 08:02 AM

I personally raise the KQo in this spot to isolate the CO limper and create some passive dead money.Often, you will raise in this spot, bb folds, co calls and folds to your cbet bc he is likely limping some like small/medium pocket pairs or suited Ax hand...I'd make it like 650 pre. Go from thereAs played, looks good to me. When the flush hits I think your sizing does well to get value from KJ and similar, and I doubt you will induce in a 4.40... hard to sayI reallly suck at donkaments, so take this advice with a scoop of skepticism
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#3 Mills

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Posted 25 December 2010 - 08:49 PM

yea, everything James said, I really dislike the limp with behind the CO limp, everything else looks pretty ok

#4 rrumsey

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Posted 26 December 2010 - 10:30 AM

this deep i really dont mind limping pre since we are OOP and there isnt a ton of dead money to take down pre. OTF: i think your lead is fine. dont love the size, seems a little too big. but still fineOTT: i wanna pot control at this point, bc if we attempt to go 3 streets here i think we are getting close to turning our hand into a bluff. unless you have reads that villain is a station. I would be c/cing imo. unless villain is nitty OTR: seeing how i said we are turning our hand into a bluff even on a blank, the fact a club came was about the worst card that could come. had we checked the turn we can easily bet fold this river. As played, im check folding. someone has to raise this river with kj to be a call. and i highly doubt that happens
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#5 HighwayStar

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Posted 26 December 2010 - 10:50 AM

View Postrrumsey, on Sunday, December 26th, 2010, 6:30 PM, said:

this deep i really dont mind limping pre since we are OOP and there isnt a ton of dead money to take down pre. OTF: i think your lead is fine. dont love the size, seems a little too big. but still fineOTT: i wanna pot control at this point, bc if we attempt to go 3 streets here i think we are getting close to turning our hand into a bluff. unless you have reads that villain is a station. I would be c/cing imo. unless villain is nitty OTR: seeing how i said we are turning our hand into a bluff even on a blank, the fact a club came was about the worst card that could come. had we checked the turn we can easily bet fold this river. As played, im check folding. someone has to raise this river with kj to be a call. and i highly doubt that happens
Agree regarding pre. Raise and call are both okay here for me.I think flop lead sizing is fine..I agree with checking one of the later streets for pot control...however I don't think we are anywhere near turning our hand into a bluff on any street. I wouldn't be surprised to be called down by 77 here.I'd probably bet turn check river and often call depending on bet size.
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#6 rrumsey

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Posted 26 December 2010 - 01:59 PM

View PostHighwayStar, on Sunday, December 26th, 2010, 10:50 AM, said:

Agree regarding pre. Raise and call are both okay here for me....however I don't think we are anywhere near turning our hand into a bluff on any street. I wouldn't be surprised to be called down by 77 here.
sorry turn hand into a bluff was not exactly what i meant and i will reword: value betting super thin at the bottom or our range where we mostly need to get hero called to be good a lot the time. we barrel turn the barrel river we generally just make his weak hands fold. assuming a blank river. it could also be possible if we bet the turn, on a blank to c/c river. seeing how it gives him a chance to bluff his missed handsin a $4 im just going to check and vbet blank rivers. if the flush hits i may bet fold. or c/c. and c/f. depending on the player
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#7 riverrat

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 11:45 AM

I don't think I would have bet the river and I am curious as to what everyone's thoughts are. It seems to me that the pot is bloated at that point and unless CO has absolute air, he is going to call another 1k which could be good or bad. The line he is taking by smooth calling every street seems to indicate that he very likely could be on some sort of draw. While it gives him a perfect opportunity to bluff if you check the river, if he wants to get tricky he could still raise 4x your bet on the river anyway. If I was the villain, if I had smooth called you up to this point, I would be very tempted to raise you big on the river whether you bet or not, so why throw another 1k in there.

#8 All_In

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 06:54 PM

wow, thanks all for the analysis! great stuff...will definitely help my game.question, when advised to raise pf, it makes no difference what the limper had, correct? most times they will not have much?i have also read that limping w/ KQo can be a profitable play, does this tip still stand up? i forget if the results are for shorthanded play or not...does being out of position mean anything here wrt limping or raising?
I don't need to be a global citizen because I'm blessed by nationality I'm member of a growing populace we enforce our popularity I feel sorry for the earth's population 'cuz so few live in the U.S.A. At least the foreigners can copy our morality they can visit but they cannot stay Only precious few can garner the prosperity it makes us walk with renewed confidence He's the farmers barren fields the force the army wields The expression in the faces of the starving millions The power of the man he's the fuel that drives the clan He's the motive and conscience of the murderer He's the preacher on t.v. the false sincerity The form letter that's written by the big computers He's the nuclear bombs and the kids with no moms

#9 rrumsey

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 09:44 AM

View PostAll_In, on Tuesday, December 28th, 2010, 6:54 PM, said:

wow, thanks all for the analysis! great stuff...will definitely help my game.question, when advised to raise pf, it makes no difference what the limper had, correct? most times they will not have much?i have also read that limping w/ KQo can be a profitable play, does this tip still stand up? i forget if the results are for shorthanded play or not...does being out of position mean anything here wrt limping or raising?
your pointing out the problem here. playing kq OOP bc CO player isnt limp folding. which is why i dont mind the limp
Escalante in the small stakes grinder podcast in respect to my FPS " Bet your damn hands!!!" hahaha

Download Spartan's podcast, Small Stakes Grinder! the link for iTunes is: (http://itunes.apple....der/id354114893)
Check out updates to the podcast in the "Members Blog" section of the forum (of pokerroad)...or else. Check it out guys it is a great podcast. Next Episode (Topic: Interview with Barry Greenstein Part 2): 04/19/10

#10 Jam-Fly

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 08:36 AM

pf is fine imo. Isolating and c-betting like others have suggested is a different play, but that is fine too imo.flop bet is perfect imo, don't see what betting smaller would achieve. on the turn, I check. You don't want to play a big pot with a very marginal hand. You are probably ahead, but the thing is, you can easily get raised with a worse hand (and if you get raised on this turn, you have to fold). What I mean is, betting out, maybe gets value from weaker kings and draws (obviously the draws can still catch up on the river) but chances are, you're only getting action from better hands, draws (although most good players will fold any straight or flush draws here due to the board pairing) or people that want to bluff you (and they are obviously raising - thus forcing u to fold ur hand - not calling). I can definitely see the theoretical reason here for betting (you're probably up against worse hands/draws therefore you want to get value and/or protect your hand) and against one opponent I probably do bet out. But against two, the amount of combinations for things that could go wrong just means I don't like betting here. Simply, if ur raised, ur folding, therefore I don't want to give any of the other two players a chance to raise with an inferior hand.don't understand bet on river, what is it hoping to achieve? Are you getting called here with KJ? 9T? Probably not. Maybe they can put you on a bluff (oh look,the club hit, if he really had a king why would he bet out when the flush hits, he must be bluffing, I'll call with my bad king) but it's waaaaay more likely that they actually have a flush (or house) or will just fold. You have to check the river. The ONLY value you can get here is by checking and hoping 67 or JT take a stab at it. Even then, you're probably folding the river (depending on bet size etc. maybe you can make a hero call, but most likely, your checking here to fold or get a cheap showdown)
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