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Folding River?


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#1 Mayoster

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 04:39 AM

Don't really know what I was thinking on the river.... Was the check on the flop just spewy?Could I seriously put him on that range? Hmmm probablyAny advice apreciated!!!Posted ImageFeral Cow Poker Hand ConverterFull Tilt No-Limit Hold'em t250/t500 ante t50 - 6 playersBB: t15,790 UTG: t7,226 UTG+1: t8,715 CO: t22,904 Button: t9,705 SB: t13,665 (Hero)Preflop: (t1,050) Hero is SB with :4h :jh (6 players)UTG raises to t1,500, UTG+1 calls t1,500, CO calls t1,500, Button folds, Hero calls t1,250, BB calls t1,000Flop: (t7,800) :5c :club: :qh (5 players)Hero checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, CO checksTurn: (t7,800) :3h (5 players)Hero bets t3,000, 2 folds, UTG+1 calls t3,000, CO foldsRiver: (t13,800) :ts (2 players)Hero bets t4,500, UTG+1 calls t4,165, and is all in
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#2 CorvairShaggy

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 07:35 AM

What kind of tourney was this? Any reads?? As played, I check/fold the river, since you just got counterfeited here.
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#3 TrueAce13

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 07:45 AM

what are you repping on the river?
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#4 nutzzcase

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 07:51 AM

he's never folding on the river. Don't really like the call preflop oop.

#5 TrueAce13

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 08:38 AM

omy and against utg's range/stack size, folding is fine PF
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#6 rrumsey

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 09:34 AM

View Postnutzzcase, on Monday, December 20th, 2010, 7:51 AM, said:

he's never folding on the river. Don't really like the call preflop oop.

View PostTrueAce13, on Monday, December 20th, 2010, 8:38 AM, said:

omy and against utg's range/stack size, folding is fine PF
my thoughts exactly. seems like hero is just stabbing with no plan for the hand.
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#7 Mayoster

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 03:58 PM

Tourney was only an $8.80 180 man I think. Only just started to get into the money.I put him on the flush draw or an over pair, but a stronger flush along the lines of AsKs AsQs. When the river came I just didnt have the balls to let it go. Thought I would rep the fullhouse, which was just fishy cause I didnt set the hand up to. He could have had a mid overpair, as his raise Pre might have suggested. Even then I could have been repping the flush.Lesson learned thanks for the advice peeps, fold pre next time.......

#8 Mayoster

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 03:58 PM

Tourney was only an $8.80 180 man I think. Only just started to get into the money.I put him on the flush draw or an over pair, but a stronger flush along the lines of AsKs AsQs. When the river came I just didnt have the balls to let it go. Thought I would rep the fullhouse, which was just fishy cause I didnt set the hand up to. He could have had a mid overpair, as his raise Pre might have suggested. Even then I could have been repping the flush.Lesson learned thanks for the advice peeps, fold pre next time.......

#9 Mayoster

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 03:58 PM

Tourney was only an $8.80 180 man I think. Only just started to get into the money.I put him on the flush draw or an over pair, but a stronger flush along the lines of AsKs AsQs. When the river came I just didnt have the balls to let it go. Thought I would rep the fullhouse, which was just fishy cause I didnt set the hand up to. He could have had a mid overpair, as his raise Pre might have suggested. Even then I could have been repping the flush.Lesson learned thanks for the advice peeps, fold pre next time.......

#10 CorvairShaggy

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 06:07 PM

View PostMayoster, on Monday, December 20th, 2010, 5:58 PM, said:

When the river came I just didnt have the balls to let it go.
At this point, you only have 4 high!! He practically committed himself calling the turn. The only thing you beat is 23 or 33. I can understand the 3k stab on the turn, but when the river pairs, you're smoked. I had to learn this lesson the hard way too, so don't feel bad. It's all part of the learning process. GL on the next one!! :club:
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#11 MaxStPolish

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 06:49 PM

View PostTrueAce13, on Monday, December 20th, 2010, 9:45 AM, said:

what are you repping on the river?
Your bet pattern is telling a story. What story are you telling here OP?The preflop raising from UTG, with like 15BBs in stack, does nothing to cooberate the 9 or 5 you are now repping come river. Once your PF raise (very thin move IMO) is called like 5 handed, you are pretty much gonna have to give up unless you set the flop. Once you check the flop, you should be check/folding 100%. That said the story of this hand is folding PF tho. This is a great example of the bad result of raising 44 OOP, especially so thin. I wouldn't recommend shoving this pre either....but I think that's probably a better decision than a 3x raise.

#12 nutzzcase

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 07:01 PM

View PostMaxStPolish, on Tuesday, December 21st, 2010, 6:49 PM, said:

Your bet pattern is telling a story. What story are you telling here OP?The preflop raising from UTG, with like 15BBs in stack, does nothing to cooberate the 9 or 5 you are now repping come river. Once your PF raise (very thin move IMO) is called like 5 handed, you are pretty much gonna have to give up unless you set the flop. Once you check the flop, you should be check/folding 100%. That said the story of this hand is folding PF tho. This is a great example of the bad result of raising 44 OOP, especially so thin. I wouldn't recommend shoving this pre either....but I think that's probably a better decision than a 3x raise.
he didn't raise preflop.

#13 Mayoster

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 07:05 PM

Thanks Max,Spot on with the advice. Shouldn't have been there to begin with, shouldn't have tried to dig myself out either.If people don't mind, and if my inbox isn't spammed with hatemail, I will post up a couple more hands that have been keeping me up at night.Thanks all

#14 rrumsey

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 09:39 AM

View PostMayoster, on Tuesday, December 21st, 2010, 7:05 PM, said:

Thanks Max,Spot on with the advice. Shouldn't have been there to begin with, shouldn't have tried to dig myself out either.If people don't mind, and if my inbox isn't spammed with hatemail, I will post up a couple more hands that have been keeping me up at night.Thanks all
keep it coming
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#15 MaxStPolish

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 05:14 PM

View Postnutzzcase, on Tuesday, December 21st, 2010, 9:01 PM, said:

he didn't raise preflop.
Ooops, how silly of me. If you had a little more beef behind you (closer to 20BBs) does anyone like a squeeze shove here??I do stick with the rest of my analysis post flop. But yeah , i see WHY you called pre....I've often been a victim of flatting in the blinds in a multiway hand, even if not getting odds to set mine, etc.

#16 Jam-Fly

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 08:44 AM

call pf is totally fine here. you have a very easy hand to play, no set = no bet. the rest of the hand plays accordingly, no set = no bet. It's 5 handed, maybe your hand is good on the flop/turn, but it probably isn't. If someone wants to bluff you off a pair of fours here, let them. Don't bother 'protecting' your han. If you get to a showdown and win, great, if not, just let the hand and the 1250 chips go.a bit shocked about the pf flop recommendations. You're playing an MTT, you have to build up chips somewhere, and hitting a set in this pot is the perfect spot. You're usually going to get to see a flop (only way you're not is if BB pushes, which is unlikely) and you're getting over 4-1 (probably 5-1 if the BB calls). You must call here and hope to hit your set
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#17 TrueAce13

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 09:43 AM

look at the stack sizes we are against...that is the reason this is a fold. If we were >25bbs, I wouldn't mind as much for calling, but our stack size isn't the greatest, we are against a 3x...We aren't going to make enough of a profit here of hitting a set, the best play here is to fold PF
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#18 Jam-Fly

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 12:48 PM

yeah, of course with 25+ BBs it's a must call, but even with the current stack sizes, I think u have to gamble. There's almost 6k in the pot already (assuming BB is calling, there's 6k+antes [not including our call]) and often, ul get one of the short stacks pushing on the flop (as it happened here, that wasn't the case though!). I think on balance, risking the 1250 here is the right play. ur around 10% to flop a set, so u need to be winning 12,500 everytime u flop a set. There's over 6k in the pot already, and I think most of the times, ul be able to get one of the short stacks (or maybe even the biggest stack's c-bet [which wud be around 3k-5k]) to commit. It's close enough, but I think u have to be aware of chip accumulation in these MTTs, so that point alone justifies the call. Strictly thinking cEV, maybe it's a fold, but with the 'implied odds' of possibly getting a big stack out of this pot versus being in effectively the same position if u call and lose (ie a stack of 12.1k instead of 13.4k), I think it's definitely worth the gamble.
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