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Did I Avoid A C-raise Here?


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#1 MaxStPolish

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 03:29 PM

I have no who this guy is, except he's a 'stars pro'. Based on his line, there's really no reason to call this flop OOP unless he plans to make a move on the turn, correct? Or was this just an obscure call by a MTT'ing player??Posted ImageFeral Cow PokerPokerStars Limit Omaha Hi/Lo $2/$4 - 5 playersCO: $58.00 Button: $34.00 (Hero)SB: $236.50 BB: $77.00 UTG: $124.00 Preflop: (1.50 SB) Hero is Button with :D :5c :4h :qh (5 players)UTG folds, CO folds, Hero raises, SB folds, BB callsFlop: (4.50 SB) :3h :4h :qh (2 players)BB checks, Hero bets, BB callsTurn: (3.25 BB) :ts (2 players)BB checks, Hero checksRiver: (3.25 BB) :D (2 players)BB checks, Hero checksHero showed :D :3h :5c :jh, and won ($13) with HI: a flush, Ace highBB showed :club: :club: :D :ts, and lost with HI: three of a kind, SevensHero won $13(Rake: $0)

#2 KingJames

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 05:08 PM

First I think his pre-flop call is really bad right? I mean we haz A2 but it's a HU pot, so what, we're gonna try to make a low and win our own money back... and sometimes we scoop when we go perfect with a nice nut flush and low... but it seems really bad to mePlus we're oop...He obv sucks...
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#3 nutzzcase

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 05:15 PM

I first thought it was horrible then i realized it was plo8. You could be bluffing with some low cards + ppl usually don't play many pairs in plo8 (so it's not that horrible). He could try to take down the pot on the turn or river if he thinks u have AK2x or something like that. Overall doesn't look that bad.

#4 KingJames

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 05:22 PM

View Postnutzzcase, on Monday, December 6th, 2010, 6:15 PM, said:

I first thought it was horrible then i realized it was plo8. You could be bluffing with some low cards + ppl usually don't play many pairs in plo8 (so it's not that horrible). He could try to take down the pot on the turn or river if he thinks u have AK2x or something like that. Overall doesn't look that bad.
Limit O8 thoand I would imagine that MSP is opening very wide on the button including most pairs espeically if it has some suited, connectedness, lowness to it
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#5 MaxStPolish

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 05:43 PM

I have zero problem with him flatting pre. If he 3 bet, then I think he's nuts based on KJ's above assessment. I just don't get what his intent is post flop by check/calling. I mean unless he plans on check raising or open betting the turn, his flop call is pointless, right? I guess more than anything else I'm making sure my analysis is correct. One of those "the more you know" kind of things. Just to validate to myself that I'd be a fool for flatting a flop here if I were in his shoes.

#6 KingJames

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 09:52 PM

View PostMaxStPolish, on Monday, December 6th, 2010, 6:43 PM, said:

I have zero problem with him flatting pre. If he 3 bet, then I think he's nuts based on KJ's above assessment. I just don't get what his intent is post flop by check/calling. I mean unless he plans on check raising or open betting the turn, his flop call is pointless, right? I guess more than anything else I'm making sure my analysis is correct. One of those "the more you know" kind of things. Just to validate to myself that I'd be a fool for flatting a flop here if I were in his shoes.
Bolded... validatedBut seriously, the flat pre has to be horrid, oop, really weak non-connected hand... I mean I rarely play the LO8aments, but I think playing very tightly oop espec if its gonna be a HU pot is the best plan
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#7 MaxStPolish

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Posted 07 December 2010 - 05:13 PM

View PostKingJames, on Monday, December 6th, 2010, 11:52 PM, said:

Bolded... validatedBut seriously, the flat pre has to be horrid, oop, really weak non-connected hand... I mean I rarely play the LO8aments, but I think playing very tightly oop espec if its gonna be a HU pot is the best plan
TY.I would disagree here. I agree with your general thought about it being a definite HU pot preflop.....but esp in a 6max, I will never fold A2xx suited (even with 3 of the suit in hand) to a button raise. That said, A28T is about as weak as I'd be calling. If it was even A29T you could entertain a fold here....but I'd still be seeing a flop 100% of the time i think. I'm willing to drop in one small bet, with the prospect of a drawing second small bet into this pot, even HU vs. the blinds A4C range, more or less. I guess the more I think about it I get the danger of getting involved of a small HU pot with a low, uncoordinated starting hand.....maybe I need to reevaluate how many times I'm actually scooping here (and if so how many extra bets are getting in) vs. my calldown losses or low draw fails that i have to fold the river to, etc.

#8 KingJames

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Posted 08 December 2010 - 08:31 AM

View PostMaxStPolish, on Tuesday, December 7th, 2010, 6:13 PM, said:

TY.I would disagree here. I agree with your general thought about it being a definite HU pot preflop.....but esp in a 6max, I will never fold A2xx suited (even with 3 of the suit in hand) to a button raise. That said, A28T is about as weak as I'd be calling. If it was even A29T you could entertain a fold here....but I'd still be seeing a flop 100% of the time i think. I'm willing to drop in one small bet, with the prospect of a drawing second small bet into this pot, even HU vs. the blinds A4C range, more or less. I guess the more I think about it I get the danger of getting involved of a small HU pot with a low, uncoordinated starting hand.....maybe I need to reevaluate how many times I'm actually scooping here (and if so how many extra bets are getting in) vs. my calldown losses or low draw fails that i have to fold the river to, etc.
yeah, you suck at poker:D
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#9 MaxStPolish

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Posted 08 December 2010 - 04:22 PM

View PostKingJames, on Wednesday, December 8th, 2010, 10:31 AM, said:

yeah, you suck at poker:D
lololololololol Ya, you know what i mean though....just in reexamining some of the micro things!!!

#10 KingJames

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Posted 09 December 2010 - 06:29 AM

View PostMaxStPolish, on Wednesday, December 8th, 2010, 5:22 PM, said:

lololololololol Ya, you know what i mean though....just in reexamining some of the micro things!!!
I would be interested. Do you have HEM Omaha or a database of hands to sort through?
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#11 MaxStPolish

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Posted 09 December 2010 - 04:41 PM

View PostKingJames, on Thursday, December 9th, 2010, 8:29 AM, said:

I would be interested. Do you have HEM Omaha or a database of hands to sort through?
Sadly no. I use absolutely no programs nor keep any sort of hand databases. I just don't even know how to go about the process of doing this without it feeling very cumbersome!!

#12 KingJames

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Posted 09 December 2010 - 05:02 PM

View PostMaxStPolish, on Thursday, December 9th, 2010, 5:41 PM, said:

Sadly no. I use absolutely no programs nor keep any sort of hand databases. I just don't even know how to go about the process of doing this without it feeling very cumbersome!!
YeahSo no HEM or PT: you fly blind with no HUD, interesting...I couldn't play online pokerz without a HUD... I am officially reliant on itI sometimes play PLO and don't have tracker for PLO, but I just nut peddle or nut-bar so it's easy game
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#13 rrumsey

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Posted 12 December 2010 - 07:00 PM

bet the turn for thin value imo
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#14 MaxStPolish

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 11:46 PM

.

#15 KingJames

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 09:40 PM

View PostMaxStPolish, on Friday, December 24th, 2010, 12:46 AM, said:

.
hof redaction
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#16 MaxStPolish

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 05:13 PM

View PostKingJames, on Tuesday, December 28th, 2010, 11:40 PM, said:

hof redaction
LOL, thanks for noticing. Also HOF that it took like 24-36 hours to redact. That's how much I beleived in the response :club:

#17 MIddLES

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 10:53 PM

please don't fold a2s to a button raise in the big blind, we can def fold the flop but vs an opponent who is opening extremely wide on the button his call on the flop actually isn't as ridiculous as it looks. villain expects us to bet our entire range on the flop and he also expects us to check back a ton of turns as so many hands in L08 are going to pick up equity on the turn as well as not know where they are at in the hand.




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