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5 Dollar Rebuy...post Add-on, About 100-150 From Money


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#1 MaxStPolish

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 05:29 PM

Is this a proper line? Pretty fresh to the table. Only been 1-2 orbits. HJ aka only stack that covers mine aka to my immediate right hasn't shown any intention on using his stack to bully me.Posted ImageFeral Cow PokerPokerStars No-Limit Hold'em ($5.00+$0.50) t600/t1200 ante t125 - 9 playersUTG+1: t22,235 MP: t19,954 MP2: t14,333 HJ: t63,331 CO: t43,737 (Hero)Button: t10,215 SB: t31,850 BB: t16,498 UTG: t18,028 Preflop: (t2,925) Hero is CO with :5c :qh (9 players)4 folds, HJ calls t1200, Hero raises to t3333, 3 folds, HJ calls t2133Flop: (t9,591) :4h :club: :ts (2 players)HJ checks, Hero bets t4444, HJ calls t4444Turn: (t18,479) :3h (2 players)HJ checks, Hero checksEDIT: Converter is failing to convert whole hand, here's the river:*** RIVER *** [Qs Ad Ts 6h] [Kc]port 33: bets 6000MaxStPolish: calls 6000

#2 dead money

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 05:44 PM

View PostMaxStPolish, on Wednesday, November 24th, 2010, 5:29 PM, said:

Is this a proper line? Pretty fresh to the table. Only been 1-2 orbits. HJ aka only stack that covers mine aka to my immediate right hasn't shown any intention on using his stack to bully me.Posted ImageFeral Cow PokerPokerStars No-Limit Hold'em ($5.00+$0.50) t600/t1200 ante t125 - 9 playersUTG+1: t22,235 MP: t19,954 MP2: t14,333 HJ: t63,331 CO: t43,737 (Hero)Button: t10,215 SB: t31,850 BB: t16,498 UTG: t18,028 Preflop: (t2,925) Hero is CO with :5c :qh (9 players)4 folds, HJ calls t1200, Hero raises to t3333, 3 folds, HJ calls t2133Flop: (t9,591) :4h :club: :ts (2 players)HJ checks, Hero bets t4444, HJ calls t4444Turn: (t18,479) :3h (2 players)HJ checks, Hero checksEDIT: Converter is failing to convert whole hand, here's the river:*** RIVER *** [Qs Ad Ts 6h] [Kc]port 33: bets 6000MaxStPolish: calls 6000
I fold. Its a clear value bet to me. If he were to bluff the river he would make a bet around the size of the pot. I dont think he can feel that comfortable with a smaller 2 pair hand to make that bet. Its screaming for a call. He wants you to make it easy for you to call with an A or 2 pair. I know you are getting 4 to 1 on your money, but I save those chips.
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#3 rrumsey

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 02:09 PM

im probably calling the river given the oddsi mean our line does look pretty weak and it isnt too unlikely to think he could be just stabbing all his missed draws and attempting to get value from worse here. i dont expect to win every time thou
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#4 FaTa10ne

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 05:11 PM

View Postrrumsey, on Thursday, November 25th, 2010, 4:09 PM, said:

im probably calling the river given the oddsi mean our line does look pretty weak and it isnt too unlikely to think he could be just stabbing all his missed draws and attempting to get value from worse here. i dont expect to win every time thou
This.I mean, essentially it comes down to your read. But from my experience, I see a lot of players in weak tournaments throwing out what looks like a value bet, when they really have a busted flush draw or something. They are too scared to throw out a big bluff, but they don't want to just concede the pot either. He could have a jack, sure, but I think the odds are in your favor to call given that he could very well have the 2nd best hand here.

#5 rrumsey

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 09:20 AM

we are calling 6k to win 24K, we can easily afford to be sucker betted a lot and still break even or better
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#6 Mercury69

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 10:41 AM

View Postrrumsey, on Thursday, November 25th, 2010, 5:09 PM, said:

im probably calling the river given the oddsi mean our line does look pretty weak and it isnt too unlikely to think he could be just stabbing all his missed draws and attempting to get value from worse here. i dont expect to win every time thou
Aye. If he has a J or Aces up, it's a good value/suck bet, but it's just as often a probe to push an opponent off a dangerous board
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#7 nutzzcase

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 11:19 AM

View PostMercury69, on Friday, November 26th, 2010, 11:41 AM, said:

Aye. If he has a J or Aces up, it's a good value/suck bet, but it's just as often a probe to push an opponent off a dangerous board
what?

#8 Mercury69

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 11:40 AM

View Postnutzzcase, on Friday, November 26th, 2010, 2:19 PM, said:

what?
If Villain has a better two pair (A's up) or a J, the bet is a suck bet, designed to get a losing hand to call off chipsIf Villain doesn't have it, his bet is a probe bet designed to make it (possibly) look like he has one of the above hands, which may make the Hero fold, if the Hero sucks at math or decides he can't afford to make a crying call for 6K.Understand? It's plain English, buddy.
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#9 Tehtoe

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 12:14 PM

Thank you for explaining the two purposes of a bet to us, Mercury.

#10 MaxStPolish

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 03:40 PM

back on track tho....what about the preflop raise. Too thin?? Even tho the guy hadn't been showing stack aggression with me, I was concerned with pushing too hard, with an ehhh hand. I feel any err in this hand line would be pretty small, if at all.....but trying to work on the finite points of my game now that stack building for deep runs is becoming more common as I start to dominate the micro scene (half sarcasm obv).I finished 36/3125 in this one. Lost A3 vs T6 BvB for like 13 BB's vs. aggrotard SB. Flop 245 (weee), but two to his suit, flush filled on river for a quarter milly chips and my tourney life :club:

#11 SuperJon

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 04:02 PM

View PostMaxStPolish, on Friday, November 26th, 2010, 6:40 PM, said:

back on track tho....what about the preflop raise. Too thin?? Even tho the guy hadn't been showing stack aggression with me, I was concerned with pushing too hard, with an ehhh hand. I feel any err in this hand line would be pretty small, if at all.....but trying to work on the finite points of my game now that stack building for deep runs is becoming more common as I start to dominate the micro scene (half sarcasm obv).I finished 36/3125 in this one. Lost A3 vs T6 BvB for like 13 BB's vs. aggrotard SB. Flop 245 (weee), but two to his suit, flush filled on river for a quarter milly chips and my tourney life :club:
preflop is fine imoi don't think either option (calling or folding) on the river really outweighs the other just based on the odds we're getting, but i probably nit it up and let him have it. there's plenty of Jx hands in his range that would play the hand just like this

#12 FaTa10ne

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 03:10 PM

If you wanna switch up your preflop play, raise it up a bit more. Given the villain's stack, his range is very wide here. This presents a nice opportunity to raise it up another 4-5x which will in most situations induce a fold, and every pot is important at this stage of the tourney.This is the only way I would play preflop differently. Ultimately it depends on the read here though. If villain is playing seemingly every hand (which I'm assuming as it's commonplace in small stake tournies), making a sizeable raise could very well get him to fold.This brings up another point. If you are sitting behind the big stack at your table late in tournies (which is a very favorable position) keep a mental note of how often he flatcalls or opens. Don't be afraid to pop him up a good amount if you feel he is starting to get really wide.Just my 2 cents, hope it helps!

#13 rrumsey

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 05:47 AM

View PostMaxStPolish, on Friday, November 26th, 2010, 4:40 PM, said:

back on track tho....what about the preflop raise. Too thin?? Even tho the guy hadn't been showing stack aggression with me, I was concerned with pushing too hard, with an ehhh hand. I feel any err in this hand line would be pretty small, if at all.....but trying to work on the finite points of my game now that stack building for deep runs is becoming more common as I start to dominate the micro scene (half sarcasm obv).I finished 36/3125 in this one. Lost A3 vs T6 BvB for like 13 BB's vs. aggrotard SB. Flop 245 (weee), but two to his suit, flush filled on river for a quarter milly chips and my tourney life :club:
preflop IP against a HJ limper, yah isolating pre with kq suited is great. just plays so well. and his range is so wide. and he clearly is so bad. so yah pre is 100% fine.oh and looking back i think we could have checked back the flop.if villain hadnt shown aggression to you, you have equity, and position, checking isnt bad. granted we call blank turns for a reasonable bet ( which i dont think happens too much bc if he has been passive i doubt he bluffs too much past just a simple stab) depending on if you think betting on the flop by your sizing should net you a better price then if he bets the turn. Plus its not bad to pot control in weak fields. both are reasonable imo. granted cbetting is fine. i just sucks when we get called bc we still have no idea where he is bc his range is so wide. i mean if the guy has missed his fold button twice, it is reasonable that he misses his fold button a third time OTF.
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#14 Milton

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 01:59 PM

I think folding the river is good. He has played the hand passively the whole way and just now decides to get out of line? I don't think it's a bluff, and you're not beating anything except bluffs here. 6,000 in chips is pretty crucial at this stage of the tournament, save it for another pot.For that same reason, I agree with rrumsey that checking behind on the flop is good. You've been given an opportunity at a free card. You have 3 cards to the nut flush and your bet won't help you find anything out. If you check behind, you allow worse hands to bet you on the turn (which you can just call), better hands to bet you on the turn (which you can still just call and lose the same amount of chips if you had c-bet), or bet against someone that checks the turn. All scenarios cost you one bet while allowing your hand to improve.And this is a good pot to allow your hand to improve to something of significant strength! Significant strength is what you want against a big stack. You don't want to risk a lot of chips in marginal spots if you have an above average medium stack.

#15 TrueAce13

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 09:48 AM

View PostMilton, on Wednesday, December 1st, 2010, 2:59 PM, said:

I think folding the river is good. He has played the hand passively the whole way and just now decides to get out of line? I don't think it's a bluff, and you're not beating anything except bluffs here. 6,000 in chips is pretty crucial at this stage of the tournament, save it for another pot.For that same reason, I agree with rrumsey that checking behind on the flop is good. You've been given an opportunity at a free card. You have 3 cards to the nut flush and your bet won't help you find anything out. If you check behind, you allow worse hands to bet you on the turn (which you can just call), better hands to bet you on the turn (which you can still just call and lose the same amount of chips if you had c-bet), or bet against someone that checks the turn. All scenarios cost you one bet while allowing your hand to improve.And this is a good pot to allow your hand to improve to something of significant strength! Significant strength is what you want against a big stack. You don't want to risk a lot of chips in marginal spots if you have an above average medium stack.
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#16 MaxStPolish

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 04:33 PM

View PostMilton, on Wednesday, December 1st, 2010, 3:59 PM, said:

I think folding the river is good. He has played the hand passively the whole way and just now decides to get out of line? I don't think it's a bluff, and you're not beating anything except bluffs here. 6,000 in chips is pretty crucial at this stage of the tournament, save it for another pot.For that same reason, I agree with rrumsey that checking behind on the flop is good. You've been given an opportunity at a free card. You have 3 cards to the nut flush and your bet won't help you find anything out. If you check behind, you allow worse hands to bet you on the turn (which you can just call), better hands to bet you on the turn (which you can still just call and lose the same amount of chips if you had c-bet), or bet against someone that checks the turn. All scenarios cost you one bet while allowing your hand to improve.And this is a good pot to allow your hand to improve to something of significant strength! Significant strength is what you want against a big stack. You don't want to risk a lot of chips in marginal spots if you have an above average medium stack.

View PostTrueAce13, on Thursday, December 2nd, 2010, 11:48 AM, said:

this is where i go wrong in poker...above the rim thinking here
I agree, this line and theory makes oodles of sense i think. Ty.

#17 Milton

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 01:29 AM

In my mind, the 3-card flush actually does make a huge difference. This isn't a pot you want to be check-raised out of. You have a decently strong hand, but if you're behind, there are theoretically 10 diamonds, 2 kings, 3 jacks out there to improve your strength. There's a huge difference between having 15 cards you want to see on the turn and just 6 cards.That being said, betting isn't bad as you can get calls from KQ, KJ, QJ, JT. I just think there's a lot more room for playing this for a greater profit by checking behind on the flop.




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