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Was I An "idiot"?


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#1 MaxStPolish

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 06:42 AM

We literally just hit hand-for-hand play after DPaff limped and i raised. ltn was captaining the table, so once he yields, i felt it was a great spot to take some squeeze bubble chips...and im easily folding to any 3 bet and calling dpaff. Naturally he berated me once he got busted on the bubble. IMO he should probably just pitch the hand at the literal bubble. Should i have taken that limp as a sign that he was at least semi-strong, and that while wanting to see a cheap flop, would be willing to commit? I too often see short stacks that will limp trying to see a flop, but will yield to the raise, even when 'committed' in the literal fringe of the bubble situations.PokerStars Game #52936536458: Tournament #331148230, $4.00+$0.40 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XXI (800/1600) - 2010/11/19 8:25:31 CT [2010/11/19 9:25:31 ET]Table '331148230 126' 9-max Seat #8 is the buttonSeat 1: Rabinho6 (24165 in chips) Seat 2: Fake4242 (38639 in chips) Seat 3: DPaff (9260 in chips) Seat 4: RmbrVukovar (42037 in chips) Seat 5: ltnfrancez (83194 in chips) Seat 6: MaxStPolish (32110 in chips) Seat 7: eblom (23930 in chips) Seat 8: Gekas22 (9831 in chips) Seat 9: naveld (11740 in chips) Rabinho6: posts the ante 200Fake4242: posts the ante 200DPaff: posts the ante 200RmbrVukovar: posts the ante 200ltnfrancez: posts the ante 200MaxStPolish: posts the ante 200eblom: posts the ante 200Gekas22: posts the ante 200naveld: posts the ante 200naveld: posts small blind 800Rabinho6: posts big blind 1600*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to MaxStPolish [4c Js]Fake4242: folds DPaff: calls 1600RmbrVukovar: folds ltnfrancez: folds MaxStPolish: raises 4800 to 6400eblom: folds Gekas22: folds naveld: folds Rabinho6: folds DPaff: raises 2660 to 9060 and is all-inMaxStPolish: calls 2660*** FLOP *** [8s 4h Ah]*** TURN *** [8s 4h Ah] [Qs]*** RIVER *** [8s 4h Ah Qs] [4s]*** SHOW DOWN ***DPaff: shows [5d 5c] (two pair, Fives and Fours)MaxStPolish: shows [4c Js] (three of a kind, Fours)MaxStPolish collected 22320 from pot*** SUMMARY ***Total pot 22320 | Rake 0 Board [8s 4h Ah Qs 4s]Seat 1: Rabinho6 (big blind) folded before FlopSeat 2: Fake4242 folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 3: DPaff showed [5d 5c] and lost with two pair, Fives and FoursSeat 4: RmbrVukovar folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 5: ltnfrancez folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 6: MaxStPolish showed [4c Js] and won (22320) with three of a kind, FoursSeat 7: eblom folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 8: Gekas22 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 9: naveld (small blind) folded before Flop

#2 HighwayStar

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 07:25 AM

Doing this leaves you pot commited against the limper and two stacks to act. If you wanna abuse this spot just jam since you cover everyone to act and they all have < 15 BBs. J4o is probably close to being in the bottom 25% of hands so I might just pass this spot and jam when I have a top 60% hand, I think you can jam really wide profitab ly here against weak players but maybe not this wide.I think jamming gets dpaff to fold more too. He is probably completely stack size unaware and thinks he has fold equity or something here when you leave him a raise all in optiOn. Jamming leaves him only a call button which he will find hard to press on a bubble.Also your isolation is too big...make it a little over 3x the BB in general here (if you have deeper stacks to act)....5k seems perfect.
.

#3 nutzzcase

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 07:27 AM

he has <10bbs don't think he's gonna fold very often.

#4 MaxStPolish

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 08:35 AM

View PostHighwayStar, on Friday, November 19th, 2010, 9:25 AM, said:

Doing this leaves you pot commited against the limper and two stacks to act. If you wanna abuse this spot just jam since you cover everyone to act and they all have < 15 BBs. J4o is probably close to being in the bottom 25% of hands so I might just pass this spot and jam when I have a top 60% hand, I think you can jam really wide profitab ly here against weak players but maybe not this wide.I think jamming gets dpaff to fold more too. He is probably completely stack size unaware and thinks he has fold equity or something here when you leave him a raise all in optiOn. Jamming leaves him only a call button which he will find hard to press on a bubble.Also your isolation is too big...make it a little over 3x the BB in general here (if you have deeper stacks to act)....5k seems perfect.
TY, exactly the information I was looking to acquire. I think my sizing was 'make sure' i committed myself vs. dpaff...in reality a 5k bet does the same thing. Bet sizing/justifying sizes to myself vs. just throwing out a number that "feels right" is definitely the next step in my poker progression. Im getting better with general estimates...but I'm not giving them proper though to actually come up with a more concrete number with a clear basis. All in good time. Thx again.I could be wrong nutz, but it never ceases to amaze me how shallow guys will limp (not in blinds) on the actual bubble just to fold to any aggression pf.

#5 Mercury69

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 09:38 AM

If shallow guy jams instead of limps, are you calling?(I agree that shallow limping on the bubble is a retarded waste of chips)
"We had all the momentum. We were riding the crest of a high and beautiful wave. So now, less than five years later, you can go up on a steep hill in Las Vegas and look west, and with the right kind of eyes you can almost see the high-water mark, that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back." —Raoul Duke, Fear And Loathing In Las Vegas

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#6 donk4life

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 09:48 AM

View PostMercury69, on Friday, November 19th, 2010, 11:38 AM, said:

If shallow guy jams instead of limps, are you calling?(I agree that shallow limping on the bubble is a retarded waste of chips)
wat

View Postakashenk, on 02 August 2012 - 06:44 AM, said:

I don't mind folding out hands we beat.

#7 MaxStPolish

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 09:55 AM

View PostMercury69, on Friday, November 19th, 2010, 11:38 AM, said:

If shallow guy jams instead of limps, are you calling?(I agree that shallow limping on the bubble is a retarded waste of chips)
of course not. Def not intending to go to showdown with J4. This play was purely based on the whole table being exceedingly soft as bubble approached (except for the stack to my right). Being a turbo the drift in this pot represents like 20% of my stack, which is a relatively healthy average. Being this was going to be like the single hand before the bubble burst, figured it was a good time to press (all based on the assumption that limper can find a fold, which at 4.40 i think is a very interesting discussion in itself)

#8 Mercury69

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 10:39 AM

View PostMaxStPolish, on Friday, November 19th, 2010, 12:55 PM, said:

of course not.
Thx. It would have been unreasonable to expect J4 to be in anyone's calling range, but you never know...
"We had all the momentum. We were riding the crest of a high and beautiful wave. So now, less than five years later, you can go up on a steep hill in Las Vegas and look west, and with the right kind of eyes you can almost see the high-water mark, that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back." —Raoul Duke, Fear And Loathing In Las Vegas

"Those are brave men knocking at the door. Let's go and kill them!" - Tyrion Lannister

#9 donk4life

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 10:40 AM

View PostMercury69, on Friday, November 19th, 2010, 12:39 PM, said:

Thx. It would have been unreasonable to expect J4 to be in anyone's calling range, but you never know...
I........ what?

View Postakashenk, on 02 August 2012 - 06:44 AM, said:

I don't mind folding out hands we beat.

#10 Tehtoe

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 10:43 AM

View PostMercury69, on Friday, November 19th, 2010, 1:39 PM, said:

Thx. It would have been unreasonable to expect J4 to be in anyone's calling range, but you never know...
I was gonna post some clever thing belittling you, but the only thing I can say is "what?" because I have literally no idea what you're talking about.

#11 Mercury69

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 10:58 AM

View Postdonk4life, on Friday, November 19th, 2010, 1:40 PM, said:

I........ what?

View PostTehtoe, on Friday, November 19th, 2010, 1:43 PM, said:

I was gonna post some clever thing belittling you, but the only thing I can say is "what?" because I have literally no idea what you're talking about.
You play poker, right? Ever been called down by a really bad hand? Ever wonder if it's some kind of random call or if it's within the guy's calling range against you? For the record, I haven't used software to gauge calling ranges, etc.So, factor that into your perceptions, ya little smarty panted bumboys.
"We had all the momentum. We were riding the crest of a high and beautiful wave. So now, less than five years later, you can go up on a steep hill in Las Vegas and look west, and with the right kind of eyes you can almost see the high-water mark, that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back." —Raoul Duke, Fear And Loathing In Las Vegas

"Those are brave men knocking at the door. Let's go and kill them!" - Tyrion Lannister

#12 Tehtoe

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 11:01 AM

View PostMercury69, on Friday, November 19th, 2010, 1:58 PM, said:

Ever wonder if it's some kind of random call or if it's within the guy's calling range against you?
ok, seriously, what?

#13 HighwayStar

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 11:02 AM

View PostTehtoe, on Friday, November 19th, 2010, 7:01 PM, said:

ok, seriously, what?
Sounds like you should factor this into your perceptions, you smarty panted bumboy.
.

#14 donk4life

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 11:04 AM

lol you're asking if MaxStPolish, a man who posts frequently on this forum and occasionally adds strat content, will call a guys 7 BB shove from EP in the CO with j4 offsuit? Where on earth is j4 in anybody's calling range in that situation? Even the worst of players aren't calling in that situation. The fact that you are even considering it just mind-boggling.It's amazing, you'd think after how long you've been a member of this forum there would be some content that would make it into your thick skull.

View Postakashenk, on 02 August 2012 - 06:44 AM, said:

I don't mind folding out hands we beat.

#15 Mercury69

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 11:05 AM

lol...what a bunch of little old ladies...
"We had all the momentum. We were riding the crest of a high and beautiful wave. So now, less than five years later, you can go up on a steep hill in Las Vegas and look west, and with the right kind of eyes you can almost see the high-water mark, that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back." —Raoul Duke, Fear And Loathing In Las Vegas

"Those are brave men knocking at the door. Let's go and kill them!" - Tyrion Lannister

#16 Tehtoe

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 11:05 AM

Good talk!Is that just a random post or part of your normal posting range?

#17 donk4life

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 11:09 AM

It's just.. I'm not... What?

View Postakashenk, on 02 August 2012 - 06:44 AM, said:

I don't mind folding out hands we beat.

#18 Mercury69

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 11:10 AM

Posted Image"Oh, Lordy! Mercury asked a silly question!""Let's...oh, what's that expression now? Oh, yes...get on his tits!""Don't forget to IRC Ethel and Gertrude, so they can some and add their two cents."
"We had all the momentum. We were riding the crest of a high and beautiful wave. So now, less than five years later, you can go up on a steep hill in Las Vegas and look west, and with the right kind of eyes you can almost see the high-water mark, that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back." —Raoul Duke, Fear And Loathing In Las Vegas

"Those are brave men knocking at the door. Let's go and kill them!" - Tyrion Lannister

#19 donk4life

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 11:14 AM

Come on, man. You can't really think anyone in their right mind is calling in that spot. I think you asked a dumb question without actually thinking about what you trying to ask, then tried to justify it with "Well, maybe it is in some people's calling range." I refuse to believe that you think people will call off with j4 in that spot.

View Postakashenk, on 02 August 2012 - 06:44 AM, said:

I don't mind folding out hands we beat.

#20 Mercury69

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 11:39 AM

That Emma Watson sure is something, eh?
"We had all the momentum. We were riding the crest of a high and beautiful wave. So now, less than five years later, you can go up on a steep hill in Las Vegas and look west, and with the right kind of eyes you can almost see the high-water mark, that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back." —Raoul Duke, Fear And Loathing In Las Vegas

"Those are brave men knocking at the door. Let's go and kill them!" - Tyrion Lannister




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