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Stars $3 Rebuy 180 Turbo Thread


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#21 Tehtoe

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 07:09 PM

View PostCorvairShaggy, on Monday, October 25th, 2010, 11:02 PM, said:

Good point. I was thinking that if they perceived me as a tight player, then that may eliminate some borderline hands that are in their range. Just ASSumed he was by one star and the min raise with 10BB. Could have been wrong, because if he called I would be the donk shoving A9 when he possibly flips over the AK.
I mean he has 12.5 bbs, he should be shoving his range here but I don't think the minraise necessarily indicates anything. If it does, I think it weights his range more towards huge hands trying to get action.

#22 TrueAce13

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 07:12 PM

Hand 1: jamming here is bad b/c of villains stack size. When he minraises his 13bb stack, he is usually wanting to induce a jam or action, so we are going to be dominated here a large percentage of the time. On top of that, he is opening UTG+1, which makes his range even stronger, so this is definitely a fold. Now if he were in MP w/ 22 bbs or something, this jam would be a bit better, still nto great tho b/c of not having any reads Hand 2: well i forgot that this is a turbo, so opening here is fine, don't 3x tho obv. You would have had to call the original jam, but after the iso its an easy muck
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#23 CorvairShaggy

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 07:23 PM

OK, So my thinking was on the right track, but his POSITION is where I went wrong, like Trueace said, if he was a few positions later, and a little deeper, my thought process would have been better, but ..... OK you guys win. I was the donk here. BTW - Trueace, when can I get the resident donk crown??? Haven't you graduated from that title yet?
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#24 Tehtoe

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 08:07 PM

View PostCorvairShaggy, on Monday, October 25th, 2010, 11:23 PM, said:

BTW - Trueace, when can I get the resident donk crown??? Haven't you graduated from that title yet?
LOL no

#25 Mr. Sparco

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 04:16 AM

Most has already been said about hand 2A, but one more thing to realize is that having a tight image is actually a bad thing when you are playing the bottom part of your range. This is a mistake I keep finding in my own thought process as well: when thinking about a raise or reraise, often two thoughts enter your head:"This hand is near the bottom of my range, but there are definitely still a bunch of hands that I beat.""I have been playing tight, so I will have some extra fold equity"While each of these may be true separately, one effect diminishes the other. The extra fold equity that you have folds out the bottom end of his range, meaning that his range becomes stronger when he calls. It's very tempting when you're looking for reasons to shove (which we all do - making marginal decisions and being right is fun) to count "tight image" and "being ahead of his range" as two separate reasons. In reality, you should weigh the combined effect as only one reason - perhaps even as half a reason at best. :club:(Of course, as others have said, in this particular hand image does not play much of a role at all. Just adding this as a general philosophy, since I think it is a mistake many players make.)

#26 r23y

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 04:43 AM

Just a quick question hould should I play pokets 9 10 of jacks from middle postion during the rebuy period.
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#27 outsider13

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 05:37 AM

View Postr23y, on Tuesday, October 26th, 2010, 7:43 AM, said:

Just a quick question hould should I play pokets 9 10 of jacks from middle postion during the rebuy period.
Um, ya? I guess it depends on how many players are in the pot, but there's nothing wrong with playing them at least for set value. JJ I probably play for stacks in the rebuy period, TT prob too depending on the action.

#28 outsider13

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 05:41 AM

And regarding the 2a & 2b, I totally agree with TA13/Tehtoe. If you are shorter and the OR is nuts, then it makes more sense. Like tehtoe said, with his stack, minraising is leaning more towards a raise to induce and you are in most cases crushed.The 55 hand, I'm raising there for sure with that stack but only to like 2750ish. I'd probably call off that first shove but def folding with that action. Nice hand.

#29 CorvairShaggy

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 08:00 AM

Outsider - I folded the 55 because of the 2nd shove. Would have been a nice hand and probably made the difference between me bubbling 20th and min-cash at a minimum.Mr. Sparco - Thank you for that post. I have been thinking all night about Tehtoe/TrueAce's explanations. I see there point, but still trying to fully wrap my brain around it. Your post drove it home.R23Y - I have no problems with the rebuy period. I always rebuy instantly to 3K, and do the add-on, and generally that is it. You can sharkscope and filter out to $3r and see that most of the time I get to about 60th or better, when shove/fold mode comes into play. To me the key during the rebuy time is pay attention to the crazy asses. Last night I had a guy directly to my left that AIPF 30 out of 31 hands during the rebuy, and I know he had to of rebought at least 15 times. That is extreme, but since I only play 2 tables at a time now, I have noticed that you do have to loosen up a bit durning the rebuy, but pay attention to the guys that are playing really loose and see what they are showing with. Alot of guys here will play any paint from any position, play any Ax from any position, J10 constantly, etc. You have to loosen up a bit, but I have found that I can pick my spots to really get it in good, or if the cards don't come, I am just patient and don't get lured in to their flipping games. (I like to make stupid flips after I've spent at least 1 1/2 hours in these). Some starts can be really loose, some are really tight. . Also, some players will start a little tight, but will get lured into playing loose if the table goes that way. When you do catch a monster, it can be a boost. I'll post a crazy hand tonight when I get home that happened during the rebuy. Too funny. Don't be afraid to call it off with middle pair and a flush draw on a non-top heavy board against a villain that has already rebought 2-3 times on a loose table. Maybe I have gotten lucky here, but I think I have made more chips with this situation than any other during the rebuy.
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#30 tbrick412

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 08:33 AM

those Bond18 articles that truefish13 posted are a really good read.
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#31 CorvairShaggy

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 06:30 PM

AHHHHHH!! Got the monkey off the back!!! Finished 13th for $20.95. This was extra special because I was really card dead the whole way (VP of 14 over 119 hands). I lost one key spot about 50th where I was down to ~700 chips, and got lucky the next 2 hands AIPF, and built back up. There was not any key hands in this one, but what made the difference was POSITION!!! I paid alot more attention to it, plus got aggressive when I could in key spots with ATC, and just played position. I think I finally may be getting it!!! Thanks again to everyone that's helped out. I have cashed several times before, but in this one I feel like I played a really good game, and even though I did get lucky, I don't feel like I was just throwing shit up against the wall in the hopes it stuck.Here is that crazy hand I was talking about a few posts earlier. This was the 8th hand in, and the table was loose as hell since the first hand. Pretty funny here:Posted ImageConverted by the cows of Feral Cow PokerPokerStars No-Limit Hold'em ($3.00+$0.30) t15/t30 - 8 playersSB misade: t1,500 BB teachmyself: t880 UTG IMGDI: t4,040 UTG+1 mightymem: t2,780 MP akb1: t3,000 HJ Hero: t6,230 CO ouwenr.1: t5,600 Button LaFnOwCryLtr: t2,970 Preflop: (t45) Hero is HJ with :club: :D (8 players)IMGDI folds, mightymem calls t30, akb1 folds, Hero calls t30, ouwenr.1 calls t30, 2 folds, teachmyself raises to t880 and is all-in, mightymem calls t850, Hero calls t850, ouwenr.1 calls t850Flop: (t3,535) :5c :ts :D (4 players)mightymem bets t180, Hero calls t180, ouwenr.1 raises to t360, mightymem calls t180, Hero raises to t570, ouwenr.1 raises to t780, mightymem raises to t1900 and is all-in, Hero raises to t3020, ouwenr.1 calls t2240Turn: (t11,655) :club: (4 players)Hero bets t1260, ouwenr.1 raises to t1700 and is all-in, Hero calls t440River: (t15,055) :D (4 players)teachmyself showed :3h :jh, and lost with a pair of Fivesmightymem showed :4h :4h, and lost with high card QueenHero showed :ts :D, and won (14875) with a flush, Ace highouwenr.1 showed :5c :qh, and lost with high card TenHero won t14875
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#32 rrumsey

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 10:22 PM

^ fold preflop
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#33 Tehtoe

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 11:58 PM

View Postrrumsey, on Wednesday, October 27th, 2010, 2:22 AM, said:

^ fold preflop
Meh, this is fine in the rebuy period.

#34 CorvairShaggy

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 04:45 AM

View Postrrumsey, on Wednesday, October 27th, 2010, 1:22 AM, said:

^ fold preflop

View PostTehtoe, on Wednesday, October 27th, 2010, 2:58 AM, said:

Meh, this is fine in the rebuy period.
You had to be there to see how loose these guys were. This was just an example to show sometimes how loose people will play during the rebuy. This is the one where ouwenr.1 got it in every single hand. He rebought at least 15 times. Some starts are really loose like this, because all 7 previous hands guys were 3-4 way all-in with literally ATC. Some rebuy starts are really stupid crazy like this, and some you just stick to our normal game plan.
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#35 r23y

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 05:47 AM

the other day I was playing in a rebuy.I flopped a k high straight flush still during the rebuy period(6 people in the hand).I checked the flop to let them catch up and checked the turn.I over bet the pot on the river to make them think I was trying to buy it and everyone folded.How could I of played this different to get some value out of it?
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#36 outsider13

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 06:11 AM

View Postr23y, on Wednesday, October 27th, 2010, 8:47 AM, said:

the other day I was playing in a rebuy.I flopped a k high straight flush still during the rebuy period(6 people in the hand).I checked the flop to let them catch up and checked the turn.I over bet the pot on the river to make them think I was trying to buy it and everyone folded.How could I of played this different to get some value out of it?
Depends on the player and his hand. You will certainly get a bit more value if you actually bet for value at some point rather than just trying to look like a bluff on one street. I probably would have checked flop, bet small on the turn to try and induce, and bet for value on the river. What your opponent has certainly affects how much you will get out of him.

#37 rrumsey

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 09:59 AM

View PostCorvairShaggy, on Wednesday, October 27th, 2010, 4:45 AM, said:

You had to be there to see how loose these guys were. This was just an example to show sometimes how loose people will play during the rebuy. This is the one where ouwenr.1 got it in every single hand. He rebought at least 15 times. Some starts are really loose like this, because all 7 previous hands guys were 3-4 way all-in with literally ATC. Some rebuy starts are really stupid crazy like this, and some you just stick to our normal game plan.
yah i have seen the same thing in the daily dollar rebuy, people ( even good 22-33 sng grinders and stuff) will go balls deep early and try to get a massive stack bc they feel its not worth playing unless they can get a huge stack. Its not a terrible fold, but why take a gamble multiway @ a table you know will pay you off when you have a hand or when they shove into you when you have a hand you are clearly a favorite in. Hu to close action against an ATC spewtard i call.
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#38 CorvairShaggy

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 10:58 AM

View Postrrumsey, on Wednesday, October 27th, 2010, 12:59 PM, said:

yah i have seen the same thing in the daily dollar rebuy, people ( even good 22-33 sng grinders and stuff) will go balls deep early and try to get a massive stack bc they feel its not worth playing unless they can get a huge stack. Its not a terrible fold, but why take a gamble multiway @ a table you know will pay you off when you have a hand or when they shove into you when you have a hand you are clearly a favorite in. Hu to close action against an ATC spewtard i call.
Basically, I didn't want to gamble and hope for better cards before these guys quit rebuying. I had already doubled up, so my thinking was call 15% of my stack (about 33% of my 8 hands in profit) and hope for A or diamonds on the flop. Anything else, I let it go. Yes, on paper you would say fold, BUT sometimes it is just about the feel. That is something you cannot be taught watching videos or reading forums. Yes, that stuff is SUPER important, but sometimes you got to go with your gut.
- - - - "It annoys me when players who play the tour for three years and don't do anything chalk it up to "variance." Yeah, has nothing to do with the fact that you suck... you are just unlucky." - - - - - Daniel Negreanu 1-21-2011 Blog

#39 Tehtoe

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 11:02 AM

waitttt, I'm dumb, I thought the raise was to 180 pre, not shoving 880. Ya, should prob fold pre in an SNG. I'd likely jam if this were an MTT, but I'm kinda nuts in the rebuy period of SSMTTs

#40 Tehtoe

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 11:06 AM

View PostCorvairShaggy, on Wednesday, October 27th, 2010, 2:58 PM, said:

Basically, I didn't want to gamble and hope for better cards before these guys quit rebuying. I had already doubled up, so my thinking was call 15% of my stack (about 33% of my 8 hands in profit) and hope for A or diamonds on the flop. Anything else, I let it go. Yes, on paper you would say fold, BUT sometimes it is just about the feel. That is something you cannot be taught watching videos or reading forums. Yes, that stuff is SUPER important, but sometimes you got to go with your gut.
this is terrible, and completely incorrect.




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