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Stars $3 Rebuy 180 Turbo Thread


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#1 CorvairShaggy

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 05:10 AM

Since I am bound and determined to get better in these, instead of creating a new thread everyday, I'll just post in this one. WARNING: The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly will be posted. There is no such thing as a dumb question (well...), so I will post away and take any helpful comments. Please don't post "You're such an idiot", but post why I was. I know I am, but actually working to get better. Anyone else would be more than welcome to post their hands as well. Here we go: HAND #1 Posted ImageFeral Cow Poker Hand ConverterPokerStars No-Limit Hold'em ($3.00+$0.30) t125/t250 ante t25 - 9 playersBB sergei1928: t3,628 UTG Hero: t7,140 UTG+1 volgadon: t3,840 MP Dariukas26: t9,932 MP2 777sanjok777: t6,695 HJ fred larry: t4,675 CO prof. Blef: t3,915 Button NeunSieben97: t5,725 SB Theox89: t6,475 [b]Preflop: (t600) Hero is UTG with :club: :ts (9 players)Hero raises to t750, volgadon folds, Dariukas26 raises to t9750, 777sanjok777 folds, fred larry calls t4650 and is all-in, 4 folds, Hero ??? -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------A few hands after add-on. Being UTG, I thought a standard 3x here would be good to induce with here. Plan was to get this all-in preflop, but after MP (somewhat LAG over 25 hands) makes what looks like an ISO shove, and HJ (super tight. 6/0/0 over 32 hands) makes the call, what do you do?? Can you really lay down QQ here? I would still have about ~22 BBs, but make the call to almost triple up right after the add-on; would be a great run-deep boost. Seemed like a tough spot to me.
- - - - "It annoys me when players who play the tour for three years and don't do anything chalk it up to "variance." Yeah, has nothing to do with the fact that you suck... you are just unlucky." - - - - - Daniel Negreanu 1-21-2011 Blog

#2 JSpencer

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 07:04 AM

View PostCorvairShaggy, on Saturday, October 23rd, 2010, 6:10 AM, said:

Since I am bound and determined to get better in these, instead of creating a new thread everyday, I'll just post in this one. WARNING: The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly will be posted. There is no such thing as a dumb question (well...), so I will post away and take any helpful comments. Please don't post "You're such an idiot", but post why I was. I know I am, but actually working to get better. Anyone else would be more than welcome to post their hands as well. Here we go: HAND #1 Posted ImageFeral Cow Poker Hand ConverterPokerStars No-Limit Hold'em ($3.00+$0.30) t125/t250 ante t25 - 9 playersBB sergei1928: t3,628 UTG Hero: t7,140 UTG+1 volgadon: t3,840 MP Dariukas26: t9,932 MP2 777sanjok777: t6,695 HJ fred larry: t4,675 CO prof. Blef: t3,915 Button NeunSieben97: t5,725 SB Theox89: t6,475 [b]Preflop: (t600) Hero is UTG with :club: :ts (9 players)Hero raises to t750, volgadon folds, Dariukas26 raises to t9750, 777sanjok777 folds, fred larry calls t4650 and is all-in, 4 folds, Hero ??? -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------A few hands after add-on. Being UTG, I thought a standard 3x here would be good to induce with here. Plan was to get this all-in preflop, but after MP (somewhat LAG over 25 hands) makes what looks like an ISO shove, and HJ (super tight. 6/0/0 over 32 hands) makes the call, what do you do?? Can you really lay down QQ here? I would still have about ~22 BBs, but make the call to almost triple up right after the add-on; would be a great run-deep boost. Seemed like a tough spot to me.
Pretty sure I call here, still a lot of hands that you beat + there will be a side pot. Cross you fingers and hope they both have AK or Jacks or something like that.

#3 TrueAce13

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 08:42 AM

mehh i suck at folding queens...poker stove is a great thing tho
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#4 r23y

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 09:43 AM

I have just started playing some of these myself.So will be in here a lot I will try and post some stuff on these myself.I look forward to see what people have to say.
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#5 JSpencer

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 10:25 AM

View PostTrueAce13, on Saturday, October 23rd, 2010, 8:42 AM, said:

mehh i suck at folding queens...poker stove is a great thing tho
equity -Hero: { QcQh } 35.531% -MP: { 88+, AQs+, AKo } 26.304% -HJ: { JJ+, AKs } 38.164% -If you include TT in his calling range, you are actually a slight favorite. So prettysure this is still a call.

#6 rrumsey

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 01:27 PM

yah im not folding QQ at this level. too much junk in villains ranges could show up. oh and during the add on period i would OPR who is at you table so if you see, idk a 50% roi winner you know you need to be careful.
Escalante in the small stakes grinder podcast in respect to my FPS " Bet your damn hands!!!" hahaha

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#7 CorvairShaggy

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Posted 24 October 2010 - 05:28 AM

HAND #1 Cont. OK, so the general concensus is that you don't feel great about the spot, but it is an unavoidable call. I was surprised at what the tight HJ called with, since he was not desperately short, and with me raising UTG, it was probably a good chance I was calling too. BUT, was my 3x open the correct play here trying to catch a weaker hand or two and build the pot, or just call off to any shove? Would have been better to 5x or just shove? (I think this is a no, lose too much value to pickup small pot). Here is how it played out:Hero calls t6365 and is all-inFlop: (t19,480) :ts :D :4h (3 players)Turn: (t19,480) :club: (3 players)River: (t19,480) :5c (3 players)Hero showed :qh :D, and lost with a pair of QueensDariukas26 showed :3h :jh, and won (19480) with a pair of Kingsfred larry showed :D :D, and lost with high card AceDariukas26 won t19480
- - - - "It annoys me when players who play the tour for three years and don't do anything chalk it up to "variance." Yeah, has nothing to do with the fact that you suck... you are just unlucky." - - - - - Daniel Negreanu 1-21-2011 Blog

#8 JSpencer

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Posted 24 October 2010 - 06:34 AM

View PostCorvairShaggy, on Sunday, October 24th, 2010, 5:28 AM, said:

HAND #1 Cont. OK, so the general concensus is that you don't feel great about the spot, but it is an unavoidable call. I was surprised at what the tight HJ called with, since he was not desperately short, and with me raising UTG, it was probably a good chance I was calling too. BUT, was my 3x open the correct play here trying to catch a weaker hand or two and build the pot, or just call off to any shove? Would have been better to 5x or just shove? (I think this is a no, lose too much value to pickup small pot). Here is how it played out:Hero calls t6365 and is all-inFlop: (t19,480) :ts :D :4h (3 players)Turn: (t19,480) :club: (3 players)River: (t19,480) :5c (3 players)Hero showed :qh :D, and lost with a pair of QueensDariukas26 showed :3h :jh, and won (19480) with a pair of Kingsfred larry showed :D :D, and lost with high card AceDariukas26 won t19480
I really have no issue with the way you played it at all, I guess it really depends on the table image you have and how everyone else has been playing.Personally, I don't mind trying to induce an over-shove when I'm holding queens, there isreally rarely any action that could take place that will be make fold.

#9 rrumsey

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Posted 24 October 2010 - 07:16 AM

CS:in these spots we need to just let our stack and the effective BB's guide us, and maybe work a read in if we have a very good one but in general robotic is fine. after that, what happens happens. your going to run into weak and strong parts of people's ranges sometimes. remember the line by shaun deeb saying if you dont ever get it in bad your not getting it in enough? just focus on you stack size and once the chips are in, dont look to see the results lol. thats why multitabling is awesome for this. what happens happens man. the goal is to just be +ev when it is in. gl man!
Escalante in the small stakes grinder podcast in respect to my FPS " Bet your damn hands!!!" hahaha

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#10 CorvairShaggy

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 04:36 AM

View Postrrumsey, on Sunday, October 24th, 2010, 10:16 AM, said:

CS:in these spots we need to just let our stack and the effective BB's guide us, and maybe work a read in if we have a very good one but in general robotic is fine. after that, what happens happens. your going to run into weak and strong parts of people's ranges sometimes. remember the line by shaun deeb saying if you dont ever get it in bad your not getting it in enough? just focus on you stack size and once the chips are in, dont look to see the results lol. thats why multitabling is awesome for this. what happens happens man. the goal is to just be +ev when it is in. gl man!
I know. I knew this was just one of those things, but I was making sure my thought process/analyzation was correct. I am starting to get a much better feel and learning when I am getting it in correct and when I am making marginal flip situations. Trying to get away from the coin flipping.
- - - - "It annoys me when players who play the tour for three years and don't do anything chalk it up to "variance." Yeah, has nothing to do with the fact that you suck... you are just unlucky." - - - - - Daniel Negreanu 1-21-2011 Blog

#11 outsider13

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 05:20 AM

View PostCorvairShaggy, on Monday, October 25th, 2010, 7:36 AM, said:

I know. I knew this was just one of those things, but I was making sure my thought process/analyzation was correct. I am starting to get a much better feel and learning when I am getting it in correct and when I am making marginal flip situations. Trying to get away from the coin flipping.
Doubt this is possible in 180 turbos, so I'd get used to it.

#12 rrumsey

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 06:35 AM

View Postoutsider13, on Monday, October 25th, 2010, 5:20 AM, said:

Doubt this is possible in 180 turbos, so I'd get used to it.
only place i would avoid coinflips is, well its a rebuy so what fail not even the early stages. coinflip. a lot. in a regular one you could get away with folding some decent hands in the first 3 levels to huge action. but @ these levels, i say you will never find spots to fold Q's and AK. i mean the once in a blue moon you should be ditching is compensated with all the random sh*t these guys will show up with. it may suck sometimes, it may feel wrong sometimes, but longterm its right.
Escalante in the small stakes grinder podcast in respect to my FPS " Bet your damn hands!!!" hahaha

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#13 CorvairShaggy

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 09:32 AM

View Postoutsider13, on Monday, October 25th, 2010, 8:20 AM, said:

Doubt this is possible in 180 turbos, so I'd get used to it.
Well, maybe I did not explain correctly. Trying to get away from stupid flips, where I am UTG+1, MP, etc. with small PPs, AJ, etc. shoving ~10-12BBs thinking I am getting it in as a flip, but really I am doing this as a dog. I agree that QQ+ and AK, and really AQ off would all be considered unavoidable flips in these. But 22 UTG... Not So Much :club:
- - - - "It annoys me when players who play the tour for three years and don't do anything chalk it up to "variance." Yeah, has nothing to do with the fact that you suck... you are just unlucky." - - - - - Daniel Negreanu 1-21-2011 Blog

#14 TrueAce13

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 01:51 PM

these are the articles i suggested a bit of time ago...i really think it will help your game, and anyone who is just starting in tournamentshttp://tworags.com/article_32.html
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#15 CorvairShaggy

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 06:38 PM

HAND #2aOK Here I made an iso shove against UTG donk-bet. Player just got moved to the table and with the min-raise he either was a donk (had one star) or was setting up for a shove/call shove. A9 suited was the bottom of my range here, and I was playing tight so I was trying to use that to my advantage. Got called by the button. He and I were in the top 10 just about the whole time, so I felt I was in trouble here. But, sometimes, you can get lucky. How off was my thinking here??Posted ImageYour converted hand, now with more cowbell.PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em ($3.00+$0.30) t500/t1000 ante t100 - 9 playersUTG: t15,470 UTG+1: t12,474 MP: t8,340 MP2: t8,570 HJ: t9,425 CO: t18,727 (Hero)Button: t22,809 SB: t23,460 BB: t20,880 Preflop: (t2,400) Hero is CO with :5c :D (9 players)UTG folds, UTG+1 raises to t2000, 3 folds, Hero raises to t18627 and is all-in, Button calls t18627, 3 foldsFlop: (t41,654) :D :qh :4h (2 players)Turn: (t41,654) :3d (2 players)River: (t41,654) :qc (2 players)Hero showed :3h :D, and won (41654) with a flush, Ace highButton showed :club: :jh, and lost with a pair of QueensHero won t41654-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Hand #2bHere, I have been trying to stay out of these situations. I was reminded right after this hand that a 3x UTG raise was not necessary, so I know that is one strike. But, this deep, are you calling 55 off to 2 other shoves? I was just moved to this table, so no reads. I would have called off to the 1st shove, but the second shove made me feel like I was going to make a classic CorvairShaggy get-it-in in a bad flip situation (possibly dominated). After seeing the hand played out from the sidelines, I think this is just results-oriented thinking. The very next hand I found myself in the same spot, but with 44. I opened min-raise, and folded around to button who shoved 20k. Basically my stack vs his on 44. Just seemed like a bad EV spot to make that call. Thoughts??Posted ImageConverting hands till the cows come homePokerStars No-Limit Hold'em ($3.00+$0.30) t600/t1200 ante t125 - 9 playersSB simakos: t24,043 BB jomotero: t9,808 UTG danielslick7: t19,335 UTG+1 Hero: t36,872 MP BAD-J0HN: t12,159 MP2 Spliff880: t9,509 HJ Aesah: t21,452 CO batraxos7: t22,594 Button Bubuii: t13,439 Preflop: (t2,925) Hero is UTG+1 with :ts :4h (9 players)danielslick7 folds, Hero raises to t3600, BAD-J0HN folds, Spliff880 raises to t9384 and is all-in, Aesah raises to t21327 and is all-in, 4 folds, Hero foldsFlop: (t25,293) :qh :5c :ts (2 players)Turn: (t25,293) :D (2 players)River: (t25,293) :jh (2 players)Spliff880 showed :3h :7s, and won (25293) with two pair, Sevens and ThreesAesah showed :club: :D, and lost with a pair of SevensSpliff880 won t25293
- - - - "It annoys me when players who play the tour for three years and don't do anything chalk it up to "variance." Yeah, has nothing to do with the fact that you suck... you are just unlucky." - - - - - Daniel Negreanu 1-21-2011 Blog

#16 MaxStPolish

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 06:45 PM

View PostCorvairShaggy, on Monday, October 25th, 2010, 9:38 PM, said:

HAND #2aOK Here I made an iso shove against UTG donk-bet. Player just got moved to the table and with the min-raise he either was a donk (had one star) or was setting up for a shove/call shove. A9 suited was the bottom of my range here, and I was playing tight so I was trying to use that to my advantage. Got called by the button. He and I were in the top 10 just about the whole time, so I felt I was in trouble here. But, sometimes, you can get lucky. How off was my thinking here??Posted ImageYour converted hand, now with more cowbell.PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em ($3.00+$0.30) t500/t1000 ante t100 - 9 playersUTG: t15,470 UTG+1: t12,474 MP: t8,340 MP2: t8,570 HJ: t9,425 CO: t18,727 (Hero)Button: t22,809 SB: t23,460 BB: t20,880 Preflop: (t2,400) Hero is CO with :5c :D (9 players)UTG folds, UTG+1 raises to t2000, 3 folds, Hero raises to t18627 and is all-in, Button calls t18627, 3 foldsFlop: (t41,654) :D :qh :4h (2 players)Turn: (t41,654) :3d (2 players)River: (t41,654) :qc (2 players)Hero showed :3h :D, and won (41654) with a flush, Ace highButton showed :club: :jh, and lost with a pair of QueensHero won t41654-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Hand #2bHere, I have been trying to stay out of these situations. I was reminded right after this hand that a 3x UTG raise was not necessary, so I know that is one strike. But, this deep, are you calling 55 off to 2 other shoves? I was just moved to this table, so no reads. I would have called off to the 1st shove, but the second shove made me feel like I was going to make a classic CorvairShaggy get-it-in in a bad flip situation (possibly dominated). After seeing the hand played out from the sidelines, I think this is just results-oriented thinking. The very next hand I found myself in the same spot, but with 44. I opened min-raise, and folded around to button who shoved 20k. Basically my stack vs his on 44. Just seemed like a bad EV spot to make that call. Thoughts??Posted ImageConverting hands till the cows come homePokerStars No-Limit Hold'em ($3.00+$0.30) t600/t1200 ante t125 - 9 playersSB simakos: t24,043 BB jomotero: t9,808 UTG danielslick7: t19,335 UTG+1 Hero: t36,872 MP BAD-J0HN: t12,159 MP2 Spliff880: t9,509 HJ Aesah: t21,452 CO batraxos7: t22,594 Button Bubuii: t13,439 Preflop: (t2,925) Hero is UTG+1 with :ts :4h (9 players)danielslick7 folds, Hero raises to t3600, BAD-J0HN folds, Spliff880 raises to t9384 and is all-in, Aesah raises to t21327 and is all-in, 4 folds, Hero foldsFlop: (t25,293) :qh :5c :ts (2 players)Turn: (t25,293) :D (2 players)River: (t25,293) :jh (2 players)Spliff880 showed :3h :7s, and won (25293) with two pair, Sevens and ThreesAesah showed :club: :D, and lost with a pair of SevensSpliff880 won t25293
1) see bolded. note the irony that you are using your image against a guy who is playing his first hand at the table. 2) fold every time i think.

#17 MaxStPolish

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 06:46 PM

Edit: Doublay posted

#18 CorvairShaggy

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 06:51 PM

View PostMaxStPolish, on Monday, October 25th, 2010, 9:46 PM, said:

1) see bolded. note the irony that you are using your image against a guy who is playing his first hand at the table. 2) fold every time i think.
No, No, using image for the remaining players. Tried to iso the donk.
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#19 Tehtoe

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 06:56 PM

View PostCorvairShaggy, on Monday, October 25th, 2010, 10:51 PM, said:

No, No, using image for the remaining players. Tried to iso the donk.
Your image for the remaining players isn't going to change much with regards to their calling ranges in this spot unless you're an utter maniac. Your image is most important vs the OR here. Also, how do you know he's a donk if he just moved to the table?

#20 CorvairShaggy

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 07:02 PM

View PostTehtoe, on Monday, October 25th, 2010, 9:56 PM, said:

Your image for the remaining players isn't going to change much with regards to their calling ranges in this spot unless you're an utter maniac. Your image is most important vs the OR here. Also, how do you know he's a donk if he just moved to the table?
Good point. I was thinking that if they perceived me as a tight player, then that may eliminate some borderline hands that are in their range. Just ASSumed he was by one star and the min raise with 10BB. Could have been wrong, because if he called I would be the donk shoving A9 when he possibly flips over the AK.
- - - - "It annoys me when players who play the tour for three years and don't do anything chalk it up to "variance." Yeah, has nothing to do with the fact that you suck... you are just unlucky." - - - - - Daniel Negreanu 1-21-2011 Blog




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