16 replies to this topic

[CaneBrain]

My first hand at the table so no reads.I am in the BB with $500. UTG straddles to 10. UTG+1 Calls, Folds to HJ who calls, Button calls, SB calls, I call with 4s3s, Straddler checks.Flop is Ad6d5c. Checks around.Turn is a 2d.SB bets 30, Hero calls, UTG +1 shoves for 225 total, folds to me. Hero??

[rrumsey]

probably folds. i mean i doubt anyone is spazz jamming sets too often, and you chop some st8s, and are on the dumb end of others. i fold. no need. not getting good odds, have no idea how he plays, fold. and i may ( call me a nit) just fold this pre. 23 suited isnt wonderful. yah its suited, but your flush is not good most the time, and you run into these kinda spots with small st8 cards.

[mtdesmoines]

CaneBrain, on Friday, September 3rd, 2010, 10:54 AM, said:

My first hand at the table so no reads.I am in the BB with $500. UTG straddles to 10. UTG+1 Calls, Folds to HJ who calls, Button calls, SB calls, I call with 4s3s, Straddler checks.Flop is Ad6d5c. Checks around.Turn is a 2d.SB bets 30, Hero calls, UTG +1 shoves for 225 total, folds to me. Hero??

Calling here is prob -EV, although we will see aces up, random two pair, etc. from time to time. Flushes are like crack for live players tho and it's likely someone is going ape with one.

[droberts]

rrumsey, on Friday, September 3rd, 2010, 11:03 AM, said:

probably folds. i mean i doubt anyone is spazz jamming sets too often, and you chop some st8s, and are on the dumb end of others. i fold. no need. not getting good odds, have no idea how he plays, fold. and i may ( call me a nit) just fold this pre. 23 suited isnt wonderful. yah its suited, but your flush is not good most the time, and you run into these kinda spots with small st8 cards.

what other str8s are we afraid of?also its 43s not 23s. not a huge difference.. but 43 makes more straights than 23

[rrumsey]

droberts, on Friday, September 3rd, 2010, 10:53 AM, said:

what other str8s are we afraid of?also its 43s not 23s. not a huge difference.. but 43 makes more straights than 23

23, 34, its all the same to me. its the problem with low suited connecters, 67 here is MMUUCCHHH better

[Ninja Ace]

Sad face slapping the hands telling myself I need discipline fold.Also there is no way he should be folding anything remotely playable preflop here... so I dunno why the strength of his hand has been questioned.

[CaneBrain]

Ninja Ace, on Friday, September 3rd, 2010, 4:37 PM, said:

Sad face slapping the hands telling myself I need discipline fold.Also there is no way he should be folding anything remotely playable preflop here... so I dunno why the strength of his hand has been questioned.

yeah, I thought it was a pretty good hand to play 6-handed getting like 10-1 on my money or whatever.results: he just looked weak.....I tanked for a minute and made a crying call. My physical read was good as he had AhJd.....but of course he hit the diamond on the river. On the whole, I think it is usually a -EV call though.

[mtdesmoines]

CaneBrain, on Friday, September 3rd, 2010, 3:45 PM, said:

yeah, I thought it was a pretty good hand to play 6-handed getting like 10-1 on my money or whatever.results: he just looked weak.....I tanked for a minute and made a crying call. My physical read was good as he had AhJd.....but of course he hit the diamond on the river. On the whole, I think it is usually a -EV call though.

Which is exactly the problem -- even if you think you're ahead, you still have to dodge D draw and you have no redraw.

[BaseJester]

Fold preflop. Preflop pot odds don't mean anything in NL. Fold as played.

[hartman72]

BaseJester, on Friday, September 3rd, 2010, 5:09 PM, said:

Fold preflop. Preflop pot odds don't mean anything in NL. Fold as played.

I'm hoping this is a joke. An above average player can easily play 34ss profitably with 4 limpers already in the pot and you are last to act other than the straddle

[BaseJester]

hartman72, on Friday, September 3rd, 2010, 9:06 PM, said:

I'm hoping this is a joke. An above average player can easily play 34ss profitably with 4 limpers already in the pot and you are last to act other than the straddle

Not a joke. It's a shitty low suited connector. In my experience, the straddler raises big in this situation a lot.We're out of position (but, granted, with good relative position). The action demonstrates well why this is a big deal.OP, any clues on the other stacks?

[rrumsey]

hartman72, on Friday, September 3rd, 2010, 5:06 PM, said:

I'm hoping this is a joke. An above average player can easily play 34ss profitably with 4 limpers already in the pot and you are last to act other than the straddle

they mean something, but its much more important to focus on postflop playablity. its like PLO, would you rather play AA69 rainbow or KKQJ double suited in plo to play postflop? AAXX rainbow is "ahead" of any hand preflop, but sucks balls to play postflop. its kinda the same idea here with this hand. and i would say a hand like this has a lot of reverse implied odds with a possible dumb end of a st8 and a weak flush. its an easy hand to fall in love with and think you have more outs then you really have. clearly if we out play our villain postflop, literally playing anything becomes profitable. we never said it wasn't profitable. I just think it is more profitable to sit, wait, and isolate and vbet these donks to death. less risk and same reward.

[BaseJester]

I brain-farted the stakes we were playing. I'd like to revise my preflop statement from "fold" to "shrug". I'd be watching the straddler for any kind of read to make my decision.

[Ninja Ace]

Reverse implied odds only exist when you're incapable of making decent... not even big but decent laydowns. Also, I don't think 43 has very much ROI properties... something like KJo has more of those properties.

[Ninja Ace]

BaseJester, on Friday, September 3rd, 2010, 5:37 PM, said:

I brain-farted the stakes we were playing. I'd like to revise my preflop statement from "fold" to "shrug". I'd be watching the straddler for any kind of read to make my decision.

That's k... it's common to see 10 dollar straddles at either 1-2 and 2-5 so ez mistake to make. I do a lot of speed read failing on forums

[rrumsey]

Ninja Ace, on Friday, September 3rd, 2010, 8:59 PM, said:

That's k... it's common to see 10 dollar straddles at either 1-2 and 2-5 so ez mistake to make. I do a lot of speed read failing on forums

i mean shit have you seen like half my post recently?! hahaha lol

[CaneBrain]

mtdesmoines, on Friday, September 3rd, 2010, 7:34 PM, said:

Which is exactly the problem -- even if you think you're ahead, you still have to dodge D draw and you have no redraw.

yep; it's really not a good call unless the villain is a maniac and even then you have to dodge stuff on the river.Everyone was between 400-750 that saw the flop. It's a pretty weak 2/5 game where there is tons of limping, lots of straddles where the straddler won't raise in this situation, etc. I am NEVER folding 43 suited in this situation in this game. if I flop trips or make a baby straight or flush I will get paid off by very weak holdings very often in my experience. Live games in Florida are super weak.