15 replies to this topic

[starfit]

I read this as a draw and making a play with the bubble like 80 away. I tanked and called. Thoughts?Full Tilt Poker $3 + $0.30 Knockout No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t80/t160 Blinds - 9 playersThe Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History ConverterUTG+2: t5558 34.74 BBsMP1: t4305 26.91 BBsMP2: t15323 95.77 BBsCO: t2807 17.54 BBsBTN: t2065 12.91 BBsSB: t5426 33.91 BBsBB: t30262 189.14 BBsUTG: t17061 106.63 BBsHero (UTG+1): t4147 25.92 BBsPre Flop: (t240) Hero is UTG+1 with K K :club:UTG calls t160, Hero raises to t480, 5 folds, SB calls t400, 2 foldsFlop: (t1280) 3 6 5 (2 players)SB bets t4946 all in, Hero requests TIME, Hero calls t3667 all inTurn: (t8614) 2 (2 players - 2 are all in)River: (t8614) 9 (2 players - 2 are all in)Final Pot: t8614SB shows A Q (a flush, Ace high)Hero shows K K (a pair of Kings)SB wins t8614

[TrueAce13]

no tank..snap call

[starfit]

Thanks TA

[rrumsey]

super standard snap call

[cdipierr]

rrumsey, on Wednesday, August 25th, 2010, 6:46 AM, said:

super standard snap call

This. Also raise more pre? UTG's limp is silly, but the goal should be to try to get it in against him w/o getting anyone else involved.

[starfit]

cdipierr, on Wednesday, August 25th, 2010, 8:13 AM, said:

This. Also raise more pre? UTG's limp is silly, but the goal should be to try to get it in against him w/o getting anyone else involved.

I should have made it more than 3x pre?

[cdipierr]

starfit, on Wednesday, August 25th, 2010, 10:19 AM, said:

I should have made it more than 3x pre?

Maybe I'm too old school, but I still raise more when there are limp(s) in front of me. In this case it didn't really matter, but the goal is to not give the blinds decent odds to play crap multiway with us.

[TrueAce13]

I don't mind just 3xing to a limper depending on the tableEdit: i mean, actually i always 3x to limpers, unless my table is very stationy, which then i will make it more to get more money in!

[HighwayStar]

525 pre

[Mercury69]

Snapcall on a board like that? Forgive me for being nitty and, perhaops, overdisciplined, but I am folding this against villians overbet/shove. No question he has a high diamond, likely that A, if he doesn't already have a made flush.KK (no D) loses to any made flush and must hit runner-runner to beat the flush with a boat, is behind to 33,44,55,66 and you still have to fade 12 outs twice. I don't call them "good odds", even if the structure is turbo.Sure, snap call is looking good when villain doesn't get there, but you guys are waaaaay behind to a lot of hands. Hey...my opinion counts and if you can't fold KK sometimes, maybe you're not as good as you think.

[TheTiburon]

I'm glad someone else said it. "SNAP" call usually means you set someone up and couldn't wait to get your chips in the middle. I'd tank here and probably fold. The play up to this point was okay, but I honestly would have raised a little bit more with the limper coming in. You don't want a multiway pot and sometimes it's okay to take down a pot pre flop with a large pocket pair this late in a tourney. I understand wantting to extract as many chips as you can with premium hands, but this is so far from a made hand on this flop that aggression and making this person pay to outdraw you would be key. There is no snap to it. I would have folded once it got to this decision point.

Mercury69, on Thursday, August 26th, 2010, 10:53 AM, said:

Snapcall on a board like that? Forgive me for being nitty and, perhaops, overdisciplined, but I am folding this against villians overbet/shove. No question he has a high diamond, likely that A, if he doesn't already have a made flush.KK (no D) loses to any made flush and must hit runner-runner to beat the flush with a boat, is behind to 33,44,55,66 and you still have to fade 12 outs twice. I don't call them "good odds", even if the structure is turbo.Sure, snap call is looking good when villain doesn't get there, but you guys are waaaaay behind to a lot of hands. Hey...my opinion counts and if you can't fold KK sometimes, maybe you're not as good as you think.

[TrueAce13]

why would he over jam a made hand so far? If he potted it, i might be able to see a made hand. As much as this could be a naked AdXx. He can very easily have an over pair anywhere from 77-QQ! People this is a snap call. Never fold this.

[cdipierr]

TheTiburon, on Thursday, August 26th, 2010, 8:15 AM, said:

I'm glad someone else said it. "SNAP" call usually means you set someone up and couldn't wait to get your chips in the middle. I'd tank here and probably fold. The play up to this point was okay, but I honestly would have raised a little bit more with the limper coming in. You don't want a multiway pot and sometimes it's okay to take down a pot pre flop with a large pocket pair this late in a tourney. I understand wantting to extract as many chips as you can with premium hands, but this is so far from a made hand on this flop that aggression and making this person pay to outdraw you would be key. There is no snap to it. I would have folded once it got to this decision point.

According to Stove, if you give the guy the following range:AdX<non-diamond>,33,55,66Then you have 41.2% equity.It's 3367 to win 4947, so you're getting 1.47:1. So this is borderline I guess (your EV is +58), but I think that's a pretty tight range.Obviously if you add made flushes, it's a fold, but does a made flush really do this?

[Mercury69]

Yes, I think a made flush would do this. Why? Because it's a move designed to make a made flush look like it's not a made flush.

[TrueAce13]

Mercury69, on Thursday, August 26th, 2010, 10:01 AM, said:

Yes, I think a made flush would do this. Why? Because it's a move designed to make a made flush look like it's not a made flush.

stop leveling yourself. A made flush would not do this. b/c it might be a sweet line to take against a station, but there is really no value in it b/c we need villain to have an actual hand and it doesn't allow them to bluff....so this is a silly line. so don't really suggest it

[Mercury69]

TrueAce13, on Thursday, August 26th, 2010, 2:16 PM, said:

stop leveling yourself. A made flush would not do this. b/c it might be a sweet line to take against a station, but there is really no value in it b/c we need villain to have an actual hand and it doesn't allow them to bluff....so this is a silly line. so don't really suggest it

And all poker players play sensibly...I hear you, man, I'm just saying this might just happen, because I have seen it happen. It's kind of similar to someone shoving 20 BB's with AA over a 3x raise...Inducement bet. No? I don't advocate it, but it's done and has it's place, although the likelihood is not so great.